The или a/an

Обсуждение вопросов, нюансов и тонкостей грамматики английского языка любого уровня.

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GlebNoNePyanykh
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#126

Сообщение GlebNoNePyanykh »

solmn пишет: 29 апр 2022, 19:43 Имеете в виду, что тут слушатель можно не знать про этот столик?
Да. Слушатель никогда не был у него в комнате и ничего не знает. И артикль здесь имеет классифицирующее значение.
Можно например так перефразировать The TV set is on a little table. The little table in the corner of the room. То есть исходное предложение объединение этих двух.
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#127

Сообщение solmn »

GlebNoNePyanykh пишет: 29 апр 2022, 19:54 The TV set is on a little table. The little table in the corner of the room.
А разве, in the corner of the room не индивидуализирующее определение, которое индивидуализирует этот столик от остальных?
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#128

Сообщение VictorB »

GlebNoNePyanykh пишет: 29 апр 2022, 19:54 The TV set is on a little table. The little table in the corner of the room.
А можно наоборот?
The TV set is on the table, a small table in the corner of the room.
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#129

Сообщение GlebNoNePyanykh »

VictorB пишет: 29 апр 2022, 20:21 А можно наоборот?
The TV set is on the table, a small table in the corner of the room.
А как переводится это предложение?
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#130

Сообщение GlebNoNePyanykh »

solmn пишет: 29 апр 2022, 20:05
GlebNoNePyanykh пишет: 29 апр 2022, 19:54 The TV set is on a little table. The little table in the corner of the room.
А разве, in the corner of the room не индивидуализирующее определение, которое индивидуализирует этот столик от остальных?
А если с is? The little table is in the corner of the room. Или я ваш вопрос не понял?
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#131

Сообщение VictorB »

VictorB пишет: 29 апр 2022, 16:31 первую главу вот здесь просмотрел
Для тех, кому интересно
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Chapter 1
The article and the category of determination. Types of attributes

1.1. The Article as a Nominal Determiner
Among grammatical categories of the English noun an important place is occupied by the category of determination which requires a compulsory correlation of the noun with a certain determiner – a word that somehow specifies its contextual meaning. Determiners are placed before a noun to clarify its nominal referent. The word «people» by itself is a general reference to some group of human beings. If someone says «these people», we know which group they are talking about, and if they say «a lot of people» we know how big the group is. Determiners of the noun are represented by articles and some classes of pronouns – indefinite, demonstrative, possessive, interrogative.

In certain contextual situations determiners are interchangeable. Thus to indicate a particular object the definite article or the pronoun this / that may be applied. To simply name an object (to single it out of the class of similar objects) we use the indefinite article, the indefinite pronouns some / any or the numeral one.

The article is the most universal and multifunctional means of determination. The system of English articles includes three grammatical forms.

The indefinite article serves to refer an object to the class of similar objects regardless of its individual features. The indefinite article has developed from the numeral one and that is why it mostly occurs before countable nouns in the singular.

The definite article is used to specify and identify an object. Originating from the O.E. demonstrative pronoun that it occurs before countable and uncountable nouns in the singular or in the plural.
The zero article is the meaningful absence of the article which expresses absolute generalization.

1.2. Descriptive and limiting attributes
1.2.1. Types of attributes Since the choice of the article depends in most cases on the context we should take into consideration the types of attributes modifying the noun because they constitute an important part of the contextual situation. There are two classes of attributes: limiting and descriptive.
A limiting attribute points out such a quality of an object (a number of objects) which makes it distinct from all other objects of the same class or kind. Nouns modified by limiting attributes are used with the definite article in its specifying function.
Is this the tin you were looking for?
It was in the very place where you put it, in the shed.
He locked the door leading to the hall.


A descriptive attribute expresses a characteristic feature of an object or gives some additional information about it. This attribute does not single out an object and does not affect the use of articles; therefore nouns with descriptive attributes may be used with both the indefinite and the definite article.
Compare the following:
Bart tossed an empty cigarette packet over the rail.
On the evening of Labour Day, the empty field near the mills was no longer empty.
He had met a young woman at the party, a moving-picture actress.
He knew pretty well how to get rid of the young woman clamoring to be his wife.


The above-given examples prove the fact that taken by themselves most attributes are neutral and only in certain contextual conditions they acquire the descriptive or the limiting force.
Attributes are expressed by separate words belonging to different parts of speech, by word combinations or subordinate clauses. Attributes may stand in preposition or in postposition to the noun they modify. The most typical attributes expressed by single words are adjectives, nouns in the common case, nouns in the possessive case, cardinal and ordinal numerals, certain classes of pronouns, and verbals – the infinitive, the gerund and the participle.

1.2.2. Attributes expressed by adjectives
Attributes expressed by adjectives may be either limiting or descriptive which depends solely on the context.
Most adjectives are descriptive attributes and thus do not affect the choice of the article which is accounted for by the situation but not by the attribute. The noun modified by one and the same adjective can be used with the indefinite and the definite article:
It was a hot summer and the lodging houses were full in Epsom.
It was the hot summer of their last meeting.

Adjectives in the superlative degree, however, are always limiting attributes.
That’s the most difficult task I’ve ever fulfilled.
He’s the best-educated man in our company.


Note 1. When the word most is an adverb of degree (крайне, чрезвычайно, очень) and is used to intensify the meaning of the adjective the whole combination is a descriptive attribute and, consequently, requires the indefinite article:
She is a most lovely girl.
It was a most unpleasant talk for all of them.

Note 2. When most precedes the countable noun in the plural or the uncountable noun in the singular and it means the greatest number of (большинство), the word combination is used with the zero article:
Most legendary figures are remembered long after their time. – Память о большинстве легендарных личностей жива и после их смерти.
Most good wine improves with keeping. – В большинстве своем хорошее вино делается с годами лишь лучше.

Note 3. Memorize set phrases a best suit (выходной костюм) and a best seller (ходкая, популярная книга).
There are adjectives in English which almost always serve as limiting attributes due to their semantics: right (тот, который нужен, правильный), wrong, same, only, very, main, principal, left, right (правый), central, following, coming, present, former, latter, last, next:
You are the very man I need in such a situation.
You might have dialed the wrong number.
Are you anxious about the coming events?


The only difference in their habits was that he used his fork with the left hand.

Note 4. Adjectives last and next before nouns denoting periods of time (day, night, morning, week, year, etc.) are used with the zero article:
I went to the Alps last winter, and I am going there next year too.
If the situation refers to the past the adjective next can be used with the definite article which is, however, optional:
He decided to re-read the play the next day after he had thought about it for twenty-four hours.


If the adjectives last and next are followed by the cardinal numeral the article should be definite:
Find out what happened to my daughter in the last six months.

Note 5. The adjective only is a descriptive attribute and is used with the indefinite article before nouns child, son, daughter.
Are you an only child?
He was an only son of wealthy parents and so heir to everything.


Note 6. Adjective pronouns all and whole are considered descriptive attributes. Consequently, the choice of the article depends fully on the context. Thus whole in the meaning of «один» is combined with the indefinite article but in the meaning of "весь целиком" — with the definite article.
The wedding feast lasted a whole week (одну неделю).
We spent the whole evening playing chess (целый вечер).


Adjectives proper, previous, usual, opposite, necessary, lower, upper, so-called, adjacent, alleged etc. may be both limiting and descriptive attributes, though the latter is less frequent:
But all the previous criticism of her conduct was as nothing compared with the buzz of gossip that now went through the town.
These are just the usual papers.


Sometimes the adjective is postpositional to the noun and in this case serves a limiting attribute to it. Postposition is typical of such adjectives as absent, present, proper, and also of some participles: involved, concerned, etc.

Note 7. Memorize the following set phrases with postpositional adjectives. Consider the use of the zero article with the noun:
president elect, heir apparent, postmaster general, attorney general, envoy extraordinary, notary public, princess royal, etc.

1.2.3. Attributes expressed by the pronoun other
The noun in the singular or in the plural form can be modified by the pronoun other. The definite article is used in the following cases:

1) when two similar objects are juxtaposed:
My house is on the other side of the street.
Have you seen the other glove of mine?


2) when two groups of similar objects are juxtaposed.
In this case the combination «other + the noun» has the meaning «the rest, the remaining» (все остальные). If the speaker, however, is not sure whether all the remaining objects are meant the zero article is used.
When I came home only two of my friends were there.
The other guests had already left.
Some people like plain chocolate, other people prefer bonbons.


The indefinite article is spelt as one word with the pronoun other and has the following meanings:
1. different from the one meant (другой):
The dress is too tight on you, try another one.
You are too good a specialist for this job. You should find another one.


2. one more of the same kind, additional (еще один):
Would you have another drink?
I waited for another moment and then clapped the door open.


Note 1. The same rule works when other is used as a noun pronoun.
She has two sons: one goes to school and the other is still a baby.
If this pen won’t write, try another.
That may be your opinion but the others think differently. You should consider their point of view.
Some people were sure he had died, others thought that he had left the country.


1.2.4. Attributes expressed by numerals
Cardinal numerals are always descriptive attributes and thus the noun is used with the zero article.
Two boys came running along the street.
She put three spoonfuls of sugar into a second cup of tea.


The use of the definite article in such word combinations depends solely on the context, namely on the fact if the object is already mentioned or if it has a limiting attribute:
Everything they had done in the three weeks since they had come back brought him disappointment only.
She lay awake watching the two girls chatting to each other in lowered voices.
For the first two days of the five, she was in a state of shock.


Ordinal numerals are usually limiting attributes:
For the first time I saw him uncertain and worried.
But on the fifth day he took the car to the third floor, stepped out and never came back.


Note 1. The noun is used with the zero article when the ordinal numeral follows it: He put volume one of the novel back into the bookcase.
Turn to page sixty-two to check your results.
The meeting is held in Room four.


Note 2. The ordinal numeral in the meaning «one more», «another» requires the indefinite article:
He knew he should have a third try.
He had to look a second time to be sure that she was not in truth a shadow.


Note 3. Memorize the following set phrases:
a first night, a first (second, third) prize, a second breath, a fifth wheel.
Has it slipped your memory that I’ve got a first night tonight?
Everyone seemed to have a specific role except me. I felt like a fifth wheel.


!!! Most idiomatic expressions of adverbial character are used with the zero article:
(at) first hand, at first sight, on second thought, second to none, in seventh heaven, etc.

1.2.5. Attributes expressed by nouns in the common case
Attributes expressed by nouns in the common case are usually descriptive and thus the indefi nite article is required.
There was a telephone line running along the road.
He leaned the sacks one on each side of a tree trunk.
How much do you pay for a music lesson?


The use of the definite article is generally due to the context. Sometimes it is affected by the semantics of the noun which is a proper name.
He called the observation post but no one answered.
He came up the street bank by the Dawson barracks with shivering heart and shaking knees.
"He might have been given the Nobel Prize at one time", the man in the taxi thought
.

1.2.6. Attributes expressed by nouns in the possessive case
If the attribute is expressed by the noun in the possessive case the choice of the article usually depends on this noun. When it signifies «belonging» the noun in the possessive case always precedes other modifi ers to the head noun.
The article with the noun in the possessive case (N’n) performs the following functions:
1) specifying function. In this case the article refers to a particular person or object and is used according to the general rules.
The woman wanted to know what Basil thought of the boy’s character.
The greenish yellow of the sun’s last light still lingered in the west.

Note 1. The zero article is used when the noun in the possessive case is a proper name or a substantivized adverb.
Aunt Pitty’s apprehensions quieted when she saw that Rhett was on his best behaviour.
I haven’t read today’s newspapers yet.

2) classifying or generic function. In this case the article refers to a whole class of similar objects and may be both definite (generic meaning) and indefinite (classifying meaning).
It’s beneath a man’s dignity to listen and give importance to rumours.
He would abandon a hero’s or a martyr’s end gladly.
He justly said no one knew better than he the hardship of the author’s trade.
He began to experience the almost forgotten feeling that hastens the lover’s feet
.

In certain cases the article refers to the head noun (N’n) and the noun in the possessive case serves as a descriptive attribute to it. The indefi nite article is used with the head noun in the singular form, while the zero article precedes the noun in the plural form or the uncountable noun.
They found on the dressing-table an unpaid dressmaker’s bill.
She was ashamed to ask the girl to do servant’s work.
I suppose two fifteen minutes’ breaks will be enough.


1.2.7. Attributes expressed by participles
The attribute may be expressed by the present or the past form of the participle. Participles are both limiting and descriptive attributes depending solely on the context and they can either precede or follow the noun. In postposition we usually find participial phrases rather than single participles.
He felt like a child brought to his first school.
The knot tightening my lungs held for another second and then loosened.
What would he do with the remaining years?
She wore a fur-trimmed gray coat.


However some participles that are used only in postposition always serve as limiting attributes and, consequently, the noun requires the definite article.
All the people concerned voted against his project.

1.2.8. Attributes expressed by the infinitive
Attributes expressed by the infinitive are usually descriptive and require the indefinite or the zero article.
I hardly suppressed an intention to laugh.
Have you got questions to ask?
Is there a place nearby for us to talk quietly?


The use of the definite article is always contextually bound.
However, that is not the point to discuss.
I tried to breathe, but the effort to inhale knotted my chest even tighter.


1.2.9. Attributes expressed by the gerund
The gerund used attributively may either precede or follow the head noun. The gerund preceding the noun doesn’t require a preposition and has a general meaning of purpose or function thus differing from the participle which denotes an action performed by the noun. The gerund in this case is a descriptive attribute and the choice of the article depends solely on the context.
Is there a swimming pool nearby? It’s nice to have a swim on such a hot day.
The swimming pool doesn’t cost all the money you’ve invested in its construction.


Note. The following combinations of the gerund and the noun are most commonly used: a walking stick, walking shoes, an amusing story, a swimming pool, a dancing hall, a publishing house, a booking office, closing time, revolving doors, a working method, etc.
The gerund following the noun usually requires a preposition. The use of the gerund in this case is lexically restricted since it can be combined with a limited number of abstract nouns whose meanings are amplifi ed or made more precise by the gerund. The choice of the article depends on the context as the gerund is a descriptive attribute here.
The most frequent is the combination with the preposition of; there are about one hundred fi fty nouns that follow the pattern Noun + of + Gerund.
I don’t want you to make a habit of coming late.
The prospect of travelling with those people made me regret my hasty decision.
He plunged into this business in the wild hope of making a fortune.
All of us experienced a strange feeling of being cheated.


The gerund as a descriptive attribute may be combined with other prepositions such as for, in, at, about, to.
I have a real passion for dancing.
He felt natural irritation at being disturbed so early in the morning.

1.2.10. Attributes expressed by prepositional nominal phrases
Nouns used attributively are combined with various prepositions. Due to the context prepositional phrases may be both descriptive and limiting attributes.
The most common attributive phrases are combinations with the preposition of whose descriptive or limiting status depends on the meaning of their constituents.
The indefinite article is used with the head noun if a nominal of-phrase is a descriptive attribute and has the following meanings:

1. quality or characteristics of an object: a question of importance, a feeling of disappointment, a picture of a friend, a sigh of relief;
2. measure: a distance of twenty miles, a weight of five pounds, a temperature of 25 C;
3. size: a man of medium height, a manor of great size;
4. age: a girl of twelve, a woman of middle age;
5. origin: a native of Scotland, a descendant of a rich family;
6. material: a vase of crystal, a coat of wool, a chain of gold, a house of bricks;
7. composition: a crowd of people, a herd of deer, a bunch of roses, a flight of steps, a pile of books;
8. a container with its contents: a pot of coffee, a glass of beer, a box of chocolates, a packet of cigarettes;
9. a certain quantity of a substance: a grain of rice, a lump of sugar, a bar of chocolate, a slice of bread;
10. comparison: a gem of a housekeeper, a devil of a child, a peach of a girl;
11. two similar objects or an object consisting of two uniform parts: a pair of gloves, a couple of sweets;
12. in a construction "the Double Genitive": a son of my friends’, an opera of Mozart’s.

The noun in the above-given cases is combined with the indefinite article. The use of the definite article is always dependent on the context.
Jess and I have been talking about the possibility of his going back into production one of these days.
All other of-phrases are limiting attributes which express the unique objects / notions, render the meaning of belonging or give a more precise definition to the noun. Consequently, the noun is used with the definite article.

Note. Memorize some typical of-phrases in the function of identification:
the wife of a doctor, the manager of a firm, the position of a teacher, the name of Peter, the city of Moscow, the foot of the mountain, the bank of the river, the shadow of a tree, the shot of a gun, the face of a girl, the use of articles, the invention of a wheel, etc.

The head noun in such combinations may be used with both the definite and the indefinite article. If the referent of the noun is the only bearer of a property expressed by the of-phrase it is used with the definite article: the monitor of the group, the murderer of John Lennon, the president of the club. The indefinite article with the head noun underlines the idea that several objects or notions have the ascribed property: a member of the club, a student of the group.
Both articles may occur when the head noun refers to a part of an object and the number of these parts is semantically limited: the (a) leg of the table, the (a) wheel of the car, the (a) paw of the cat.

1.2.11.Attributes expressed by subordinate clauses
Attributive subordinate clauses are both descriptive and limiting attributes. Two basic types of attributive clauses should be distinguished:
а) subordinate clauses which are semantically alienated from the head noun and thus can be easily detached and transformed into separate sentences. In oral speech they are marked by a pause, in written speech they are sometimes (not obligatorily) marked by a comma that separates them from the principal clause. These clauses are called non-defining, they are always descriptive and, consequently, don’t affect the choice of the article before the antecedent. The use of the article in this case is determined by the context or by the other attributes modifying the noun.
Men have always wanted a personal God to whom they can turn in distress for comfort and encouragement.
She was offered a cigarette that she refused with indignation.
People who live in glass houses should not throw stones.
She gave the man, who was sitting in the chair by the window, an indifferent glance.


в) subordinate clauses whose semantic connection with the antecedent is so tight that they cannot be removed from the sentence or else the whole structure is violated. They are joined to the principal clause either asyndetically or by a certain connector. Attributive clauses of this type are called defi ning and they may be both descriptive and limiting attributes depending on the context. When the attributive clause is descriptive the indefinite article is used with the antecedent:
He wasn’t a man she could fall in love with.
Is this the book you’ve been looking for?
She had an opportunity that may be offered to very few of us.
He didn’t look at the man he was speaking of.


A special type of attributive clauses – appositive clauses are usually limiting attributes, though in certain contextual conditions (in fiction, mostly) the antecedent is used with the indefinite article. Appositive clauses disclose the essence of the head noun and as a rule they are combined with abstract notions feeling, idea, hope, thought, impression, fact, sense, etc.
Тем, кому вдруг захочется критически высказаться по поводу прочитанного (полезно/бесполезно/вредно и т.п.) - please, go ahead, for I'm rather green so far an ESL learner to share the opinion that can be seriously taken into account :)
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VictorB
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#132

Сообщение VictorB »

GlebNoNePyanykh пишет: 29 апр 2022, 21:06 А как переводится это предложение?
А что, если так:
Телек стоит на столе, маленьком таком (столике) в углу комнаты.
?
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#133

Сообщение GlebNoNePyanykh »

VictorB пишет: 29 апр 2022, 21:30 Телек стоит на столе, маленьком таком (столике) в углу комнаты.
Не уверен, что английское предложение то же самое означает. Подождем мнения других коллег.
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#134

Сообщение VictorB »

GlebNoNePyanykh пишет: 29 апр 2022, 21:39 Не уверен, что английское предложение то же самое означает.
Да и сам я тоже... .просто типа аналогия пришла на ум:
He gave her a ring, [it was] a beautiful golden ring, a wedding ring!
Тоже не совсем уверен - just the case when my gut tells me it's not absolutely improper usage. I may be wrong, though :(
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#135

Сообщение Juliemiracle »

VictorB пишет: 29 апр 2022, 21:28 Для тех, кому интересно
Прям пахнуло Каушанской пополам с Блохом :)
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#136

Сообщение VictorB »

Juliemiracle пишет: 29 апр 2022, 22:16 Прям пахнуло Каушанской пополам с Блохом :)
LOL! Если это призыв их бывших жертв (одним из коих мне как-то не "посчастливилось" быть) к отмщению, интересно было бы прочитать нечто более информативное :) Что до меня, то то, что я сумел извлечь из пока прочитанного, не могу назвать абсолютно бесполезной информацией. Лично для себя. Хотя бы в плане повторения ранее усвоенного. При этом всю книжку, которую мне доставят послезавтра, я полюбасу прочитаю и упражнения поделаю. Чисто ради удовольствия. Да, и уж конечно, если Вы, dear Juliemiracle, присоветуете мне что-то, по-Вашему мнению, более достойное внимания самоучки, I'll be more than happy :-)
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#137

Сообщение diggerzz »

GlebNoNePyanykh пишет: 29 апр 2022, 21:06 А как переводится это предложение?
The TV set is on the table, a small table in the corner of the room.
Телевизор на столе + [there is] a small table in the corner of the room. Здорово, что столик в углу, не спорю.
Или без [there is] - совокупность телевизора и стола превращаятся в столик в углу комнаты (The TV set is on the table, a small table in the corner of the room)? Сюр какой-то, кмк.
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#138

Сообщение solmn »

Yety пишет: 29 апр 2022, 14:33 The book is on the (=THAT) table [over there].
Стол или единственный, или вон тот, на который указываю
Если вернуться к столам, то на выбор a или the влияет единственность стола с точки зрения слушателя? Или реальной обстановки?
Например, если слушатель не знает один там стол или нет, то какой артикль выбрать?
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#139

Сообщение solmn »

И ещё один вопрос туда же. Where is the book? The book is on the shelf.
В каком случае здесь будет a shelf, а в каком the shelf? Тому, кто говорит же может вообще быть не известно знает ли слушатель про эту полку или нет?

Тот же самый вопрос относительно: The soup is on the gas cooker или The soup is in the fridge. Может ли тут быть a gas cooker и the fridge соответственно?
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VictorB
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#140

Сообщение VictorB »

VictorB пишет: 29 апр 2022, 20:21 А можно наоборот?
diggerzz пишет: 30 апр 2022, 00:08 (The TV set is on the table, a small table in the corner of the room)? Сюр какой-то, кмк.
Hey, diggerzz, I only asked whether that sentence made sense.
That you don't think so has been noted. Thanks :)
What if it were put this way:
The pasport is on the table, (on) a bedside table in the parens' bedroom.
(There may be two/three bedrooms with two bedside tables in every one, no?)
Does this make sense to you?
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#141

Сообщение diggerzz »

VictorB пишет: 30 апр 2022, 00:48 The pasport is on the table, (on) a bedside table in the parens' bedroom.
(There may be two/three bedrooms with two bedside tables in every one, no?)
Does this make sense to you?
Sure it would. It's a little bit artificial of an example, but why <censored> not?
However, if we talk about real life, these points of conversation is more than obvious to the both sides, I suppose.
My apologies for my writing in advance.
Thought to get B2First, but fail just before the beginning. FYI, just in case.
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Yety
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#142

Сообщение Yety »

solmn пишет: 30 апр 2022, 00:17The book is on the (=THAT) table.
Если вернуться к столам, то на выбор a или the влияет единственность стола с точки зрения слушателя? Или реальной обстановки?
Эмм... Не то чтобы с тзр слушателя, а в расчёте на соответствующее его понимание.
Говорящий с the предполагает, что слушатель должен находиться с ним "на одной волне" и понимать, о каком столе идёт речь, - о единственном в этой комнате столе в общем представлении говорящего и слушателя. Стол для слушателя мб как знакомым, так и условно - ожидаемым-предполагаемым.

А по факту они могут ошибаться, конечно)). Кто-то мог натаскать туда столов по-тихому, без их ведома.))
solmn пишет: 30 апр 2022, 00:17 Например, если слушатель не знает один там стол или нет, то какой артикль выбрать?
Дак это ж говорящий сообщает мысль. Опред артикль - средство говорящего сообщить слушателю, чтоб тот не допускал множественности столов в своём представлении этой ситуации.
Последний раз редактировалось Yety 30 апр 2022, 03:45, всего редактировалось 1 раз.
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#143

Сообщение diggerzz »

Yety,
Блин, скоро уже треья мировая, судя по всему.
Может сломанные цитаты починят уже, ну, чтоб перед потомками, если будут, не так стыдно было?!

Не писал я того, что мне приписывают.
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#144

Сообщение Yety »

solmn пишет: 29 апр 2022, 19:04 I have a colour TV set. The TV set is on a little table in the corner of the room.
Имеете в виду, что тут слушатель можно не знать про этот столик? Но разве из контекста не подразумевается что столик в углу только один может быть?
Здесь неопред артикль сообщает слушателю, что в углу есть столик, с которым говорящий хочет его познакомить. Такое почти *элегическое* описание...
Знаешь, а телек стоит у меня на таком небольшом столике в углу комнаты...
"Есть в старом парке чёрный пруд..."
solmn пишет: 29 апр 2022, 20:05 А разве, in the corner of the room не индивидуализирующее определение, которое индивидуализирует этот столик от остальных?
Необязательно.
Оно было бы таким, если бы говорящий передавал смысл гораздо более конкретный и технический.
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#145

Сообщение Yety »

diggerzz пишет: 30 апр 2022, 03:31 цитаты починят
Исправил.
Пусть то будут наши последние крайние заботы.)))
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#146

Сообщение diggerzz »

Yety пишет: 30 апр 2022, 03:47 Пусть то будут наши последние крайние заботы.)))
Ваши бы слова, да богу в уши. :)
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#147

Сообщение Easy-Breezy English »

solmn пишет: 29 апр 2022, 15:02 Коллеги, если еще знаете хорошие материалы для отработки артиклей, прошу вас, предлагайте!)
Не уверена, что мы с вами коллеги, но предложу. :-)
Возьмите несколько страниц любимого произведения на английском и проанализируйте употребление артиклей. Толку будет больше, чем от притягивания чудаковатых примеров за уши.

У вашего столика в углу может быть как определенный артикль, так и неопределенный. Если определенный, то вы его идентифицируете в закрытой группе предметов - это тот из столиков в нашем доме, который стоит в углу гостиной. Если неопределенный, то группа открыта, это просто какой-то столик, неважно какой. Воры проникли в квартиру и искали телевизор в уборной, а он оказался на каком-то столике в углу гостиной, кто бы мог подумать.
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#148

Сообщение Харбин Хэйлунцзян »

solmn пишет: 30 апр 2022, 00:45 Тот же самый вопрос относительно: The soup is on the gas cooker или The soup is in the fridge. Может ли тут быть a gas cooker и the fridge соответственно?

В принципе наличие того или другого артикля определяет ситуацию. Я вижу это так - вы опускаете ключи от квартиры в ладошку своей новой американской подружки и говорите, "The soup is in a fridge." Чисто технически ситуация возможная - у вас там три холодильника. Но наверно в таком случае стоило уточнить в каком из трех искать суп. Она подумает что вам стоит еще поработать над своим английским.

Если же вам это сказала она и вы решили спросить совета на форуме то вы должны предъявить как можно больше контекста включая цвет волос вашей новой подружки.

Вот как такой вопрос задаю я:

https://forum.thefreedictionary.com/pos ... where.aspx

-
Easy-Breezy English пишет: 30 апр 2022, 09:27 Возьмите несколько страниц любимого произведения на английском и проанализируйте употребление артиклей. Толку будет больше, чем от притягивания чудаковатых примеров за уши.

Вот хорошая книжка:

"That was a narrow escape!" said Alice, a good deal frightened at the sudden change, but very glad to find herself still in existence; "and now for the garden!" and she ran with all speed back to the little door: but, alas! the little door was shut again, and the little golden key was lying on the glass table as before, "and things are worse than ever," thought the poor child, "for I never was so small as this before, never! And I declare it's too bad, that it is!"

-
Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, by Lewis Carroll
-
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#149

Сообщение Juliemiracle »

VictorB пишет: 29 апр 2022, 23:21 Что до меня, то то, что я сумел извлечь из пока прочитанного, не могу назвать абсолютно бесполезной информацией.
Она не бесполезная. Например, там как раз описывается вопрос ТС (если он продерется через теоретические описания), что прилагательные могут быть как с артиклем, так и без, и это определяет контекст. Так что читайте, конечно, если есть желание.
Просто сам стиль описания вызвал у меня ностальгические воспоминания об учебе и чтении подобных книг.
Что мне не очень нравится, так это то, что все в кучу (особенно в notes это некое хаотичное желание впихнуть невпихуемое проявляется, на мой взгляд) и очень много, по сути, повторяющегося текста. Мне кажется, можно было бы покороче и визуально чуть по-другому выстроить.
Я полагаю, что на вашем уровне уже больше смысла в рассмотрении конкретных случаев. То есть, если заинтересовал артикль в определенном контенте, плясать от него и смотреть несколько справочников, словарей и форумов.
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#150

Сообщение diggerzz »

Juliemiracle пишет: 30 апр 2022, 12:09 Я полагаю, что на вашем уровне уже больше смысла в рассмотрении конкретных случаев. То есть, если заинтересовал артикль в определенном контенте, плясать от него и смотреть несколько справочников, словарей и форумов.
На мой, непрофессиональный, взгляд, вот прямо 10 из 10-ти выбито.
С точки зрения артиклей, я, например, мало что понимаю, кроме общих правил, которые тоже не всегда понимаю. Ну а для носителя, наверное, многое очевидно сразу.

"Ты давно не был здесь, мы всегда так живем".
Можно талмуды написать, пытаясь объять необъятное и впихнуть оное в некие рамки.
Но есть проблема, небольшая, что рамок-то и нет, вроде как.
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