Took me a while to figure out

Discuss any questions in English. Practise your writing skills.

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asil
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#76

Сообщение asil »

acapnotic пишет: 10 ноя 2020, 15:01 asil,
What do you mean by 'original text'? I took it from a book I'm now reading. Fritz Leiber's The Green Millennium. This is the only phrase in it that has puzzled me so far, and I'm almost finishing the book. Its language is much smoother than that of The Big Time, and I'm enjoying it.

The plot is also much more intriguing, so if anyone is looking for something to read, I can recommend giving this book a try.
I mean, you're reading a scanned copy.
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#77

Сообщение acapnotic »

Michelangelo пишет: 10 ноя 2020, 15:04 Are you sure that we'll understand the aliens from outer space?
Try and see. Life is too dull and drab without a bit of risk, isn't it? :)
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#78

Сообщение Michelangelo »

acapnotic пишет: 10 ноя 2020, 15:08 Life is too dull and drab without a bit of risk
What kind of risk do you have in mind? It's only dull, not risky to read aliens' texts, isn't it?
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#79

Сообщение acapnotic »

asil пишет: 10 ноя 2020, 15:07 I mean, you're reading a scanned copy.
Yes. But finding a paper book would definitely be far more hassle than it's worth.
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#80

Сообщение Michelangelo »

One can find some altered letters in a scanned copy, but not distorted sentences and phrases, I imagine.
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acapnotic
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#81

Сообщение acapnotic »

Michelangelo пишет: 10 ноя 2020, 15:09 What kind of risk do you have in mind?
Putting your time and effort in reading something and not understanding it.
Michelangelo пишет: 10 ноя 2020, 15:09 It's only dull, not risky to read aliens' texts, isn't it?
That phrase is the only one (so far) supposedly made up by aliens. And it has already been explained by Dragon27. The rest of the book is written in human language.
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#82

Сообщение Dragon27 »

I see no reason to mistrust the (easily googleable) Google Books version which contains the quoted fragment.
I've also noticed (by reading the available fragments of the text) that the author tried to imitate a Spanish accent by omitting personal (or impersonal) pronouns (and other stuff) in the speech of Señor da Silva.
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#83

Сообщение acapnotic »

A similar use of 'but', I guess. The meaning is close to 'without'.

“Fine sort of wife you turned out to be,” Jack informed Juno, striding toward her with his hands shoved deep in his pockets. “Can’t leave you ten minutes but you start pulling some dumb trick.”

And an interesting example from a dictionary. What is interesting is that it can be understood in opposite ways.

(literary) used to emphasize that something is always true
She never passed her old home but she thought of the happy years she had spent there (= she always thought of them).

If I read it unprepared, I'd naturally think that she never passed her old home and only sometimes thought of the happy years spent there. Whereas in fact it means (if I get the explanation right) that she did pass it but never without thinking of those years. Isn't that confusing?
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#84

Сообщение Michelangelo »

acapnotic пишет: 11 ноя 2020, 09:18 that she did pass it but never without thinking of those years.
Whenever she passes her old home, she thinks of her happy years spent there.

She cannot pass her old home without recalling her happy years there.

That home is like a trigger to start her memories of her happy years there.

NB: Multitran gives a variant that "but what" could mean just "that"
What do you think of this? If we substitute it in that sentence it would sound logically, however, I won't be ever sure it it will have the same meaning.
Последний раз редактировалось Michelangelo 11 ноя 2020, 09:30, всего редактировалось 1 раз.
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#85

Сообщение acapnotic »

Michelangelo, but you see the other meaning, don't you? Which one would you pick if you read the sentence in a book?
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#86

Сообщение Michelangelo »

acapnotic,
No.
I agree with you.
I just saw some unclearness in the construction
acapnotic пишет: 11 ноя 2020, 09:18 she did pass it but never without thinking of those years
I just intended to write the same in other words. I thought they should have the same meaning as your formulation. Why are they different for you?
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#87

Сообщение acapnotic »

Michelangelo, they are not different. By 'other meaning' I meant this:
acapnotic пишет: 11 ноя 2020, 09:18 If I read it unprepared, I'd naturally think that she never passed her old home and only sometimes thought of the happy years spent there.
If I saw that sentence in a book, I'd understand it this way, i.e. incorrectly. However, the grammar of the sentence allows this understanding, and I think that it's more likely, at least for us non-natives.
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#88

Сообщение Michelangelo »

acapnotic,
No, when I read your quotation I just think like you interpreted it later
acapnotic пишет: 11 ноя 2020, 09:18 she did pass it but never without thinking of those years
But really I was prepared for that "but" in an uncommon context. Maybe that is why I understood it more or less correctly. Maybe because you first wrote this
acapnotic пишет: 11 ноя 2020, 09:18 The meaning is close to 'without'.
That could have helped me to take it properly. I dunno.
Maybe if I saw it alone without your explanations, I would have interpreted it like yourself. Who can tell now? :)
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#89

Сообщение acapnotic »

The salad in particular pleased him. Avocados, artichoke heart, some kind of blue cheese dressing… thank God they had not presented him with a Japanese meal, the dishes of mixed greens and meats of which he had eaten so much since the war.

And the unending seafoods. He had gotten so that he could no longer abide shrimp or any other shellfish.


Another 'so' that I have stumbled over. At first I thought it might mean "gotten so much (of seafoods) that", but no, the part starting with 'so' seems to work as an adjective. Like in "had gotten tired", for example. Reminded me of "how like something somebody is".
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#90

Сообщение zymbronia »

Could it be like this:
He had gotten
so that
he could no longer abide shrimp or any other shellfish
Последний раз редактировалось zymbronia 02 дек 2020, 16:42, всего редактировалось 2 раза.
Причина: deleted Russian text
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#91

Сообщение Yety »

zymbronia пишет: 02 дек 2020, 11:22 He had gotten
so that
he could no longer abide shrimp
That parsing doesn't sound quite correct.
It looks more like a clause of degree rather than that of result:
He had gotten so (=bored with it, to the point where)
that he could no longer abide shrimp...

Cf.: His reputation had gotten such that he no longer had to take every case that came his way, he could now pick-n-choose the case or cases he liked best.
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#92

Сообщение acapnotic »

With 'such' the meaning is easier to grasp. However, 'such' is not always about degree. It can also mean a type. Maybe 'so' can too, when used like that.
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#93

Сообщение zymbronia »

acapnotic, I think the difference is that "so" is used with uncountable nouns, and "such" - with countable.
I may be wrong, though.
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#94

Сообщение VictorB »

zymbronia пишет: 02 дек 2020, 16:43 acapnotic, I think the difference is that "so" is used with uncountable nouns, and "such" - with countable.
I may be wrong, though.
https://english.stackexchange.com/quest ... -such-that
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#95

Сообщение acapnotic »

In perhaps a hundred matches since, Bhodi had scored more than 2000 points just five times, all in the last six weeks. The record was in reach, and that knowledge made him drive himself even harder. Almost as though there were tumblers spinning inside his head, he knew a good run from an average one. They had a feel all their own, his gambles paying off, his anticipations proving true.
It's about two teams of players running around in an arena and "shooting" one another with electronic guns.

Athough 'tumbler' has a couple of meanings relating to things that can spin, I still can't figure out how they would fit in the context.

The drum of a clothes dryer. -- Definitely not.

(Jewellery) Also called tumbling box: a pivoted box or drum rotated so that the contents (usually inferior gemstones) tumble about and become smooth and polished -- Hmm... But polishing takes quite a long time, I guess, while the book speaks about making decisions on the run. Besides, this meaning is rather specialist. How many people know of these tumbling boxes? I didn't.

So I just don't get what the author actually means.
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#96

Сообщение Easy-Breezy English »

acapnotic пишет: 17 дек 2020, 11:27 Athough 'tumbler' has a couple of meanings relating to things that can spin
Tumblers like in a slot machine or a combination lock that you're trying to open. The slot machine reference probably makes more sense in this context, especially because gambling comes up later in the passage.
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#97

Сообщение Yety »

The tumblers kept spinning in Finn's head, but they refused to light on anything; he felt like he was on the verge of making sense of what was happening, but something inside of him didn't want to, and so they kept spinning…
Thoughts of a years-old profile are spinning in my head like tumblers in a lock, but before they can settle on one thing to ...

I can just imagine the wheels spinning in your head right now.

Gears are spinning in Jensen's head and Jared's frenetic ... up a fraction until he feels the satisfying give of the tumblers.

And you can feel the wheels spinning in his head as he tries to overcome one obstacle after another.

... to build a bridge using blocks of irregular size, as she figured out how to open a lock whose tumblers had to be clicked just ... Ashok could practically see the gears spinning in her head.
TUMBLER
4. a pivoted piece in a lock that holds the bolt until lifted by a key.
× a notched pivoted plate in a gunlock.

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22gear ... pjaJTvawiM
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#98

Сообщение acapnotic »

Thanks! Both versions make sense. But taking into account that "he knew a good run from an average one", the slot machine is probably closer to the author's idea. When opening a lock, what is 'an average run'? There is only one good and many bad 'runs'. While with a slot machine some combinations are better and some worse than average.
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#99

Сообщение Dragon27 »

acapnotic пишет: 17 дек 2020, 13:37 Both versions make sense.
Can you feel the tumblers clicking into place now?
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#100

Сообщение acapnotic »

Dragon27 пишет: 17 дек 2020, 14:09 Can you feel the tumblers clicking into place now?
Well, the ultimate truth is in the head of the author, obviously. With this reservation, yes.
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