Juliemiracle: blog

Личные дневники, заметки, темы для мелких вопросов и подобного. Не более трех тем для каждого участника форума.

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#1

Сообщение Juliemiracle »

I'm going to somehow follow into [mention]Mary May[/mention]'s footsteps and try to limit my writing to the confines of this blog.
I'm also going to make some comments about other forum posts that I find interesting, adding the links to the source posts, of course.
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#2

Сообщение Juliemiracle »

Notes on reading 'Teaching Language: From Grammar To Grammaring' by Diane Larsen-Freeman.
Chapter 1. Defining Language and Understanding the Problem
  • The way you mentally define what 'language' is shapes the way you learn and teach it, what aspects you focus on.
  • My working definition of language: it's a system that people use to interact, communicate their ideas and achieve their goals. It's dual because it is both organised and chaotic. Language encodes the culture and the world outlook of an individual and a nation.
  • The second factor shaping the way you teach should be, of course, learners' needs and reasons.
  • And there are many other points of influence: colleagues, requirements, development of technology, etc.
  • This is why we're generally eclectic in our teaching.
  • Why we need to drill things:
    "Nothing could be more enslaving and therefore less worthy of the human mind than to have it chained to the mechanics of the language rather than free to dwell on the message conveyed through the language" (Lado, 1957 as cited in Widdowson, 1990).
  • Our pendulum of teaching tends to constantly swing between the form-function dichotomy.
  • 'The inert knowledge problem' (Alfred North Whitehead (1929)): a gap between the formal knowledge and its transfer to the communicative part of a lesson or a non-instructional setting.
  • To bridge that gap we need to change the way we think, and this book focuses on doing it dealing with the grammar subsystem.
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#3

Сообщение Juliemiracle »

Notes on reading 'Teaching Language: From Grammar To Grammaring' by Diane Larsen-Freeman.

Chapter 2. Challenging conceptions of grammar

There are 12 statements - 'yes & no' myths about grammar.

The nature of grammar
1. Grammar is an area of knowledge.
There's declarative and procedural knowledge, and grammar is also a skill. Diane calls it grammaring to show that it's dynamic and mutable.
2. When we say sth is grammatical, we mean that it is accurate.
Grammar isn't just about form, it's about meaning as well. It's also about appropriateness of use.
3. Grammar has to do with rules.
Grammatical 'rules of thumb' provide students with security, but they mostly deal with accuracy of form, have exceptions and are often abstract. Plus, corpora show that we operate with chunks as well as rules. Secondly, you can operate with abstract grammar constructions instead of rules (*reminds me of radical construction grammar in the cognitive approaches to grammar). Instead of rules, we need to 'teach reasons', i.e. grammar is rational.
4. Grammar is arbitrary.
The connection of sound and meaning is arbitrary (F. de Saussure), but once the form has been settled on, it's no more arbitrary. Example: 8 meanings and functions of -ed = remoteness, distance.
5. One good thing about grammar is that there is always one right answer.
There are certain conventions, but we need to remember descriptive vs prescriptive grammar and the grammar of choice.
6. Grammar has to do with word endings and word order within a sentence and structures, such as word endings or morphology.
Yes, but also a discursive tool. Besides, there's also a difference between a grammar of written sentences and a grammar of speech.

The learning of grammar.
7. Grammar is acquired naturally; it doesn't have to be taught.
It can, but not necessarily. Beware of the 'reflex fallacy' (what works well in natural environments is what should be adhered to in the language classroom) (Larsen-Freeman,1995).
8. Grammar structures are acquired in a set order, one after another.
Language acquisition is nonlinear.
9. All aspects of grammar are learned in the same way.
Language is too complex; SLA isn't explicable by a single process.

The teaching of grammar.
10. Learners will eventually bring their performance into alignment with the target language; error correction or feedback is unnecessary.
See the reflex fallacy. Teachers need to maximise learning.
11. Grammar (teaching and/or learning) is boring.
A teacher doesn't have to entertain but needs to engage Ss (when they're focused, relaxed, and attentive!!!). Practice has to be meaningful. Teachers need to cultivate the attitude of inquiry.
12. Not all Ss need to be taught grammar. Children, for instance, do not benefit from formal grammar instruction.
See the reflex fallacy. It depends on the definition of grammar.

*** It should be borne in mind that the book was published in 2003, so what seemed revolutionary then is a well-known fact these days.
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#4

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Juliemiracle пишет: 17 авг 2020, 18:54 A teacher doesn't have to entertain but needs to engage Ss (when they're focused, relaxed, and attentive!!!).
It really agrees with my teaching philosophy.
Also, I immediately recalled the book by Sergey Lukyanenko 'The Stars Are Cold Toys'. There's a race - Geometers - whose language has a word that's roughly translated as 'stay relaxed&alert' (расслабься-бди).
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#5

Сообщение Juliemiracle »

Chapter 3. The Dynamics of Language (Grammaring)

Why grammar (and language on the whole) are dynamic:
• Over-time dynamism
Language is changing and even the native speakers aren't always sure of what's right:
"Many of my fellow teachers believed that I, as a native speaker of English, had the final word on the way English was. They were aware that the grammar books they used were sometimes out of date. They would quiz me on the subject of changing forms in English. What struck me at the time was my insecurity in answering their questions. I, too, recognized that the language was changing, but I was reluctant to answer based on my intuitions alone. I really wanted to have a community of native speakers to confer with." (Michael Kozden)
Acceptability of a new form isn't determined individually; it's socially defined.

• Real-time dynamism
We constantly scan our environment and make our decisions and changes based on it.
The stasis in linguistic description is intentional (de Saussure's oppositions: langue vs parole, synchronic vs diachronic linguistics - hello to my 'Linguistics 101' at uni :) + Chomsky's performance vs competence). But some linguists introduce dynamism into linguistic description: R. Jakobson - static & dynamic synchrony, D. Hymes - competence = knowledge + skill, M. Halliday, D. Brazil - Incremental Grammar, P. Hopper - a priori grammar vs emergent grammar, T. Givon, A. Goldberg - grammar = rigidity + flexibility.

• Organic dynamism
Ppl don't want to change the language on purpose, but they do so by using it every day.
'The Labov principle' - “the act of playing the game has a way of changing the rules” (Gleick, 1987: 24) (see also chaos/complexity theory).
Language is a fractal (like a tree): it's self-similar at every level of scale.

• The dynamism of interlanguage.
An 'acquisition metaphor' (learning = acquiring rules or structures, has an endpoint) is very popular in SLA.
'Participation metaphor' - learning = doing, activity, no endpoint, becoming a member of a certain community.
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#6

Сообщение Juliemiracle »

By the way, the person who inspired me to read this book is Блондинка from the old efl forum, and I'm truly grateful to her.
Yes, it's been on my list for many years, but better late than never, I guess.
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#7

Сообщение Alex2018 »

Вы правда в это верите, как минимум после нескольких лет обучения, или хотите обмануть такого простого пацана как я?
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#8

Сообщение Juliemiracle »

Alex2018 пишет: 19 авг 2020, 13:54 Вы правда в это верите
???
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#9

Сообщение Juliemiracle »

Герундий или причастие? (Грамматика)
I think the quotation from the book I'm reading (see above) can be of use here:
For example, consider these two sentences with different forms of Nan:
I can’t imagine Nan’s doing such a thing.
I can’t imagine Nan doing such a thing.
In the first sentence, the ’s marks Nan as the subject of a gerund doing such a thing. In the second sentence, without the ’s marker, Nan is simply the object of the sentence, being modified by the present participial phrase doing such a thing. Some prescriptivist grammarians consider the second sentence to be erroneous— a malformed gerund. However, many English speakers these days consider such forms perfectly acceptable.
...
The gerund in the first sentence invites us to imagine the episode as a whole, whereas in the second sentence, with the object followed by a participle, the focus is primarily on Nan, not on the entire episode.
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#10

Сообщение Alex2018 »

Juliemiracle
Я могу сказать, что нужно научиться понимать что написано, для этого нужно разбить предложение на составляющие, а это без грамматики невозможно. Невозможно на слух определить что они там бормочат, следовательно нужен препод по фонетике.
А то что вы пишите, это типа я в Турции пол года поработала, научилась все понимать, теперь я аппер интермидиан.
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#11

Сообщение Juliemiracle »

Alex2018 пишет: 19 авг 2020, 15:59 А то что вы пишите, это типа я в Турции пол года поработала, научилась все понимать, теперь я аппер интермидиан.
???
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#12

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Chapter 4. The Three Dimensions (3Ds)

3Ds + language in communication
• The forms of a language - its visible/audible units (studied by: phonology, graphology, semiology, morphology, syntax). Units: phonemes, graphemes, signs, grammatical morphemes, syntactic patterns.
• Meaning (studied by semantics) - semantics deals with decontextualised forms (dictionary). Units (lexemes, derivational morphemes, multiword strings + notions) have meaning potential!
• Pragmatics - what ppl mean by the lge they use. Units - social functions + discourse patterns.

3Ds + different linguistic units
• We need to apply this 3D scheme on different levels of scale. Examples: word 'house', apologising exponents, existential there, genitive case, demonstratives.
• It's a pie chart with 3 questions: how it's formed, what it means, and when/why to use it, especially as opposed to another structure with a similar meaning.
• NB! "…when one is dealing with appropriateness one is forced to ask, “appropriate for whom?” Because appropriateness is socially constructed and context-dependent, in certain situations, adhering to native speaker conventions might be inappropriate for learners."
• If a non-native is fluent and accurate, a native may not realise a pragmatic error has been committed, may misjudge the intentions and judge the speaker harshly!!!
• Knowing a structure involves both when to use it and when NOT to.
• We need to distinguish between meaning and use because 3Ds of a unit are learned/have to be taught differently. Usually meaning is learned the quickest, form requires a lot of practice and use requires developing sensitivity to context.

3Ds are important
• In linguistics - enrich our understanding of lge in communication;
• In ELT - teachers shouldn't ignore dimensions, but they must be selective in what they actually deliver to their Ss.

A linguistic heuristic principle - difference in form always means a difference in meaning/use.

The challenge principle - one of the 3Ds almost always affords the greatest long-term challenge to language students.
• It's possible and important to anticipate the greatest challenge to choose the best teaching approach. Example: the passive voice.
• We can use the 3D pie chart for CPD purposes: if some wedge is (nearly) empty, we need to focus on it.
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#13

Сообщение Alex2018 »

Juliemiracle,
Я говорю про методику которую вы транслируете, хотя согласен это всё один большой вопрос, а не методика.
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#14

Сообщение Ленья »

Alex2018 пишет: 19 авг 2020, 16:44 Я говорю про методику которую вы транслируете
Методику чего?
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#15

Сообщение Alex2018 »

Ленья,
Магии 80 уровня из 3-х первых постов.
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#16

Сообщение Juliemiracle »

Alex2018 пишет: 19 авг 2020, 16:44 Я говорю про методику которую вы транслируете, хотя согласен это всё один большой вопрос, а не методика.
It's not some 80th-level methodology - it's just a book about grammar. I'm reading it and taking notes because: 1) it helps me understand things better; 2) I can refer to my posts later if necessary; 3) it may help others decide whether they want to read it or not.
Alex2018 пишет: 19 авг 2020, 15:59 А то что вы пишите, это типа я в Турции пол года поработала, научилась все понимать, теперь я аппер интермидиан.
There was no such info in the book. Perhaps you've misinterpreted grammar myths from Chapter 2?
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#17

Сообщение Alex2018 »

Juliemiracle,
Где-то было про то что обратная связь не нужна, и меня прям резануло. Теперь не могу найти.
Juliemiracle пишет: 19 авг 2020, 17:35 it's just a book about grammar
Наверное до граммар ещё не дошли, у меня чувство просто что это про телепатический английский.
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#18

Сообщение mustang »

Juliemiracle,

July, the guy is just seeking your attention, he doesn't really want you to explain anything. No need to comment on posts about awesome magic tricks or girls who come to Turkey to master English in six months.:)
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#19

Сообщение Juliemiracle »

Alex2018 пишет: 19 авг 2020, 18:06 Где-то было про то что обратная связь не нужна, и меня прям резануло.
Juliemiracle пишет: 17 авг 2020, 18:54 10. Learners will eventually bring their performance into alignment with the target language; error correction or feedback is unnecessary.
It's one of the myths debunked in the chapter.
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#20

Сообщение Alex2018 »

Juliemiracle, а так то мифы)
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#21

Сообщение Alex2018 »

mustang пишет: 19 авг 2020, 18:10 he doesn't really want you to explain anything
енисинг точно не надо)
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#22

Сообщение Ленья »

Juliemiracle пишет: 19 авг 2020, 18:11 the guy is just seeking your attention
100500)
Brace yourself! Your life is about to be a bed of roses again! The guy seems to know how to make ladies happy)
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#23

Сообщение Juliemiracle »

We discussed this word about a year ago
Juliemiracle (New words you find interesting, useful, etc. ))
and yesterday I was listening to the BBC radio, and it was a DJ's question: Is it a real word? What's the spelling? Do ppl use it? What's the word origin? etc
It was fun. One lady supposed it was of Russian origin because of 'zh' :)
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#24

Сообщение tourist »

Juliemiracle пишет: 19 авг 2020, 19:31 Do ppl use it? What's the word origin? etc
from here
the term seems to have arisen from secret lingo popular in parts of the gay community in the United Kingdom in the 1960s.
so no, don't hear that myself...
not yet anyway )
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#25

Сообщение Juliemiracle »

Chapter 5. Rules and Reasons

• You need to know not only the how (the rule) but the why (the reason) in order to remove the burden of rote learning from your Ss and to empower them in the long run.
• When you know the reasons, you may know when you can override the rule for meaning or use purposes. Example: statives in continuous.
• Knowing reasons also helps to see the logic of the speakers of a certain language, see the world as the speakers do.
• Rules are static generalisations that are never broad enough to prevent exceptions.
• You can counter the arbitrariness of rules through reasons. Example: there + a/the, verbs + gerund/infinitive!!!
• A teacher doesn't have to talk about the reasons explicitly, but they should inform the teacher's choice on how to teach a certain structure not to mislead the Ss. Example: activities to teach 'there'.
• Semantic considerations can often override formal constraints. Example: S+V agreement, backshift in reported speech, adjective position around a noun.
• Because of the systematicity of grammar, reasons are broader based than rules. Example: separable transitive phrasal verbs (or verbs with 2 objects) + the position of the direct object (noun vs pronoun); why there are verbs with 2 objects that can change their positions (give) and strict verb patterns (explain)!!!
• The fact that English speakers tend to put new information at the end of a clause accounts for word order phenomena in a wide range of syntactic structures.
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