God save the Queen - subjunctive?
It is not the indicative mood as otherwise we will be "save*s*".
It is not the imperative mood because we have "subject".
I found example here: https://parentingpatch.com/subjunctive- ... ish-verbs/
I made a search for optative mood and found an article: https://www.thoughtco.com/what-is-an-op ... od-1691359 with a nice picture:
It looks like it is a wish and so it is an https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optative_mood with its own grammatical rules...
God save the Queen - subjunctive?
Модератор: zymbronia
- gavenkoa
- Сообщения: 2800
- Зарегистрирован: 01 мар 2018, 13:00
- Благодарил (а): 3100 раз
- Поблагодарили: 582 раза
gavenkoa пишет: ↑18 апр 2020, 15:09 I made a search for optative mood and found an article: https://www.thoughtco.com/what-is-an-op ... od-1691359 with a nice picture:
The article states it is from Randolph Quirk et al., A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language. Longman, 1985.The Optative Subjunctive in Formulaic Expressions
One type of irregular sentence contains the optative subjunctive, used to express a wish. The optative subjunctive survives in a few expressions of a fairly fixed type. It is combined with subject-verb inversion in:
Far be it from me to spoil the fun.
So be it.
Suffice it to say we lost.
So help me God.
Long live the Republic.
It is found without inversion in:
God save the Queen!
God {The Lord, Heaven} bless you!
God {The Lord, Heaven} forbid!
God {The Lord, Heaven} help us!
The devil take you.
Последний раз редактировалось gavenkoa 18 апр 2020, 15:20, всего редактировалось 2 раза.
Причина: added citation
Причина: added citation
-
- Сообщения: 809
- Зарегистрирован: 15 янв 2019, 23:04
- Благодарил (а): 28 раз
- Поблагодарили: 82 раза
-
- Сообщения: 2181
- Зарегистрирован: 01 мар 2018, 06:57
- Благодарил (а): 32 раза
- Поблагодарили: 851 раз
"I fuck you" на мой взгляд никак не раскрывается. По аналогии тогда уж "God fuck you". Как "Damn you - God damn you".nikolai ivanovich пишет: ↑18 апр 2020, 15:48 means God bless you
про fuck you не знаю, может I fuck you или subjunctive
- Yety
- Сообщения: 11198
- Зарегистрирован: 28 фев 2018, 23:44
- Благодарил (а): 3381 раз
- Поблагодарили: 5399 раз
Well, the full form of 'Damn it!' is 'God damn it!', of course. So the One who damns is sort of implied, even though not mentioned directly (as in the passive 'The rona be damned!').
The 'Screw you' version is built on the same pattern as the contracted 'Damn you' one, but is different in that no screwer can be reconstructed behind the phrasing. =)
- gavenkoa
- Сообщения: 2800
- Зарегистрирован: 01 мар 2018, 13:00
- Благодарил (а): 3100 раз
- Поблагодарили: 582 раза
https://babel.ucsc.edu/~hank/quangphucdong.pdf though modern comprehensive grammar books treat them as interjections...
(ii) Damn, we've missed the bus again!
There are also a number of words such as
blast, bugger, damn, fuck which are primarily verbs, but which in supplements like that
in [ii] have lost their verbal meaning, and are best regarded as having been reanalysed
as interjections.*70
*70 The verbal origin is more relevant in expressions like Damn these mosquitoes! or Fuck you!, where they have an
NP complement. Historically, the blast and damn constructions were understood with God as subject, but that
doesn't match their normal interpretation now: there is no more reason to postulate an understood subject
in Blast you! than in Fuck you! It may be best to regard such words as exceptional interjections that combine
with an NP complement to form an interjection phrase.
- gavenkoa
- Сообщения: 2800
- Зарегистрирован: 01 мар 2018, 13:00
- Благодарил (а): 3100 раз
- Поблагодарили: 582 раза
Здесь упоминается что эти oaths - все optative mood...
https://english.stackexchange.com/quest ... s-derivati
https://english.stackexchange.com/quest ... s-derivati
- Yety
- Сообщения: 11198
- Зарегистрирован: 28 фев 2018, 23:44
- Благодарил (а): 3381 раз
- Поблагодарили: 5399 раз
Absolutely. It doesn't matter if a person is a believer or not. The language still has it. It would only be otherwise if the fuller form were obsolete or restricted to some dialectal/idiolectal (group) usage as is the case with the Russian "спасибо". Hardly anyone interprets this in speech as "спаси Бог", which it goes back to, even well knowing the yetymological fact.
Not so with 'Bless you'. The fuller 'God bless you' is still there, used by many people outside various religious communities.
How else would you explain the growing popularity of the "PC" 'areligeous' German borrowing GESUNDHEIT! in place of the (religiously connoted) "Bless you!“?
'God' is still there hiding in the implied. =)
- gavenkoa
- Сообщения: 2800
- Зарегистрирован: 01 мар 2018, 13:00
- Благодарил (а): 3100 раз
- Поблагодарили: 582 раза
It doesn't work any more: https://the-toast.net/2014/12/09/lingui ... ax-f-word/
Fuck God.
*Fuck Himself.
To hell with God.
*To hell with Herself.
- acapnotic
- Сообщения: 3939
- Зарегистрирован: 02 мар 2018, 07:49
- Благодарил (а): 280 раз
- Поблагодарили: 925 раз
Damn it! :) I see that great minds do fucking think alike. I was going to write something along the same lines, that there are two senses of 'damn': literal and idiomatic, and that only the first is about God.gavenkoa пишет: ↑19 апр 2020, 16:16 It doesn't work any more: https://the-toast.net/2014/12/09/lingui ... ax-f-word/
-
- Похожие темы
- Ответы
- Просмотры
- Последнее сообщение