Classical music that is not dull.

Discuss any questions in English. Practise your writing skills.

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#1

Сообщение gavenkoa »

I find every piece of Mozart / Bach / Beethoven so dull.

My journey through youtube suggestions gave me only a few enjoyable pieces. Actually they are unbelievably pleasant and they went to my playlist ))

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_on_Bald_Mountain
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pictures_at_an_Exhibition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnossiennes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gymnop%C3%A9dies
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danse_mac ... a%C3%ABns)











In most of these pieces something is happening, there is the reason to listen to ))

That is your opinion on classical music? Which works are inspirational?
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#2

Сообщение gavenkoa »

PS https://forum.wordreference.com/threads ... c.1961084/
"Classical music" is the kind of music composed by Beethoven, Bach, Mozart, etc.

"Classic music" is anything that stays in the public consciousness and can be of any genre, including rock, country and western, jazz, e.g. Dave Brubeck's Take Five.
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#3

Сообщение VictorB »

gavenkoa пишет: 23 янв 2020, 16:31 "Classic music" is anything that stays in the public consciousness and can be of any genre, including rock, country and western, jazz, e.g. Dave Brubeck's Take Five.
I don't think these two make a valid collocation.
At the same time, classic musical/movie/film/novel/rock/show/song, etc. are all valid collocations.
You may look them all up in a reliable collocation dictionary, Oxford for one.
gavenkoa пишет: 23 янв 2020, 16:31 PS https://forum.wordreference.com/threads ... c.1961084/
Why search for self-made definitions and non-expert explanations on forums (this one excluded:-) when they're available in dictionaries and on English learning and reference sites?
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/ru/%D0 ... -classical
Also:
https://wikidiff.com/classic/classical
https://www.englishgrammar.org/classic-vs-classical/
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#4

Сообщение Juliemiracle »

gavenkoa,
I like modern composers, too.
For example, Mychael Nyman https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c404bSipGVQ,
Ludovico Einaudi https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTq2Iuyk1s8, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWcWgBCPj1c
Yann Tiersen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2W_G3xmSGfo
Come to think of it, a lot of composers who write music for films, like Ennio Morricone, Hans Zimmer or Alexandre Desplat are absolutely fantastic.
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#5

Сообщение Zlatko_Berrin »

gavenkoa пишет: 23 янв 2020, 16:30 I find every piece of Mozart / Bach / Beethoven so dull.
Easy easy

Bach's music is divine. Maybe, one needs to be a musician to be able to estimate its beauty. I can't help listening to Bach's fugues over and over again. And his choral works... are unsurpassed, full of joy and sadness at the same time... And those voices... You hear one voice 'singing' a melody, then another voice repeats the melody - it is the answer, - the first one continues singing its own independent melody...

And what about a double fugue?


It's so wonderful to realize what can be made of a little melody - Bach's the only composer, I know, who could play with a melody for long hours, changing and evolving it. Just take a look at (maybe 'a listen to'? I've never seen such an expression before) this work:


Well, if you're looking for something pompous...


And Mozart... How can this be dull?
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#6

Сообщение Zlatko_Berrin »

gavenkoa пишет: 23 янв 2020, 16:30 something is happening
Aha, the ordered randomness of notes ?))) (this especially relates to Mussorgsky)

P. S. Not only to Mussorgsky, but also to Stravinsky)
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#7

Сообщение Yety »

Zlatko_Berrin пишет: 23 янв 2020, 20:54 maybe 'a listen to'?
Actually, you can say so. But you'd better not.=)
TWP_Can we stop saying ‘take a listen’?
WordWizard_take a listen / have a listen / give a listen
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#8

Сообщение gavenkoa »

Juliemiracle пишет: 23 янв 2020, 19:30 like Ennio Morricone, Hans Zimmer or Alexandre Desplat are absolutely fantastic.
Recently I remembered https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaghetti_Western and listened to something like this:



It is not the easiest music. I imagine listening to it only in headphones.

I've heard good about Hans Zimmer, but Alexandre Desplat is unknown name to me, thx.
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#9

Сообщение gavenkoa »

Zlatko_Berrin пишет: 23 янв 2020, 20:54 And Mozart... How can this be dull?
That one is not dull. But it his Requiem (BTW finished by another person)!

In general his works are worth a try.
Zlatko_Berrin пишет: 23 янв 2020, 20:54 Just take a look at (maybe 'a listen to'? I've never seen such an expression before) this work:
I can't follow his logic. What is happening is not what I expect and approve.
Zlatko_Berrin пишет: 23 янв 2020, 21:06 the ordered randomness of notes (this especially relates to Mussorgsky)
P. S. Not only to Mussorgsky, but also to Stravinsky)
Wow, you know how to PLEASE me )) Thx, I missed him, I thought he is dull as Tchaikovsky!



It can have dissonance but it was created to be logically resolved. On the contrary I can't justify Bach's notes in his scores )) I can't see relations among measures in his fugues. He like a robot - he follows some musical rules (play in one key, chords are properly rotated, or how it is called, etc) but I do not follow his ideas and so I do not enjoy his plays.
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#10

Сообщение gavenkoa »

Stravinsky was born in 1882, lived in France starting from 1920, and moved to America in 1939 so he is a good example of adult learners of English.

I think he struggled to pass meaning because the lack of the words (B1+ xD):

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#11

Сообщение gavenkoa »

I don't think that every piece of "classical" music deserves general recognition:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threnody_ ... _Hiroshima

You need to understand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone_cluster to get "this":



And still producers incorporate all ideas into general mass products, so at the end we still experience "advanced" music in it simplified form.
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#12

Сообщение Juliemiracle »

gavenkoa пишет: 23 янв 2020, 23:05 I've heard good about Hans Zimmer, but Alexandre Desplat is unknown name to me, thx.
add Alan Silvestri to the list as well, please :) I think he's worth checking out.
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#13

Сообщение Zlatko_Berrin »

gavenkoa пишет: 23 янв 2020, 23:51 I can't follow his logic.
[...]
gavenkoa пишет: 23 янв 2020, 23:51 It can have dissonance but it was created to be logically resolved.
See? Bach's works at least have logic.) I failed to find both logic in Stravinsky's works in general and this 'logical resolution' in Internal Dance in particular. The best word I can find to describe his Internal Dance is "бред".)) Flutes come in randomly, furiously whistling, then a few random passages of strings... I can't hear what meaning the composer was trying to convey. There is no single melody - no main theme of the piece.

Let's take Mozart's or Beethoven's symphonies as an example. Let it be the 40th symphony and the 5th one, respectively.
What we hear as the music starts is, so to speak, the declaration of the main motive of the symphonies. Eb-D-D, Eb-D-D, Eb-D-D, BBBBBB or GGGEEEb, FFF DDDDD (you got me, right?)). The composers evolved the main motive through the entire symphonies - they changed tonality, instruments, which played the themes, they split the themes and played with different parts of them, add according dynamic changes.

Stravinsky: constant whistling, random string interruption, illogical dynamic changes. I can't, you know, join what he started with and what he ended with together.
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#14

Сообщение Zlatko_Berrin »

gavenkoa пишет: 24 янв 2020, 00:19"this"
It's like watching a horror movie without horror. My ears hurt, though.
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#15

Сообщение Zlatko_Berrin »

Maybe, I just trained my ears to kind of hear in the scope of baroque and classical (meaning a style and the era when composers wrote music in this style) 'rules' (wondering if what I'm saying makes sense) by constant listening to Bach's, Mozart's, and Beethoven's works and now они скручиваются в трубочкуit's unbearable for me to listen to Stravinsky and almost all composers who lived after Beethoven. On the other hand, I like some earlier pieces. I mean music of the renaissance era.

Check this out: =))
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#16

Сообщение Mary May »

gavenkoa,
Just a wild quess: perhaps, at the moment you still need some tips/extra guidance to where to direct your imagination to when listening to music. If this is the case, you might try so called programme music: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Program_music
Not very often mentioned, opera overtures may also work.
Zlatko_Berrin пишет: 24 янв 2020, 01:07 it's unbearable for me to listen to Stravinsky and almost all composers who lived after Beethoven.
Zlatko_Berrin, I do believe that, sooner or later, you'll appreciate some pieces of more modern music too.
Please give it a try and spend 6 min of your life listening to this post-modernist opus by Pavel Karmanov (just a part of it, actually):
СпойлерПоказать
СпойлерПоказать
Should I apologise for torturing? Guilty as charged. Anyway, it was not long )
Another contemporary composer I adore is Alexey Kurbatov.
СпойлерПоказать
http://www.mosconsv.ru/ru/concert.aspx? ... hoUkCi-Cf4
Btw, going to conservatory to his concert this Sunday - him performing Edvard Grieg, Robert Schumann et al (for Alexey is an outstanding pianist, too).
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#17

Сообщение Mary May »

gavenkoa пишет: 24 янв 2020, 08:35 I don't think that every piece of "classical" music deserves general recognition:
Who says "every"?
Who says "general"? )
All of us are well aware of a very hostile negative attitude some really great musicians had towards their equally great colleagues. So we, as "general public", are in our right, too - not to criticise severely, maybe - but to hold on to our likes and dislikes (as far as we don't see our opinions as the "final judgement"))
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#18

Сообщение Easy-Breezy English »

Juliemiracle пишет: 23 янв 2020, 19:30 Come to think of it, a lot of composers who write music for films, like Ennio Morricone, Hans Zimmer or Alexandre Desplat are absolutely fantastic.
And please don't forget Max Richter and Abel Korzeniowski. :-)
Zlatko_Berrin пишет: 23 янв 2020, 20:54 Bach's music is divine.
So very true. And I feel like Beethoven should be given his dues here, too.
BTW, I always love your music recommendations. :-) Don't write modern classical music off, though. It might grow on you.
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#19

Сообщение gavenkoa »

Zlatko_Berrin пишет: 24 янв 2020, 00:48 I can't, you know, join what he started with and what he ended with together.
That is an interesting point! What I actually do with any new song - jump around the record and if it is the same at each point I lose interest. That's why I lack interest to contemporary pop/rock and other genres.

Of cause Bach / Mozart works are changing. But their works evolve in directions that I can't approve. We need to distinct our discussion from "popular" pieces, like "Moonlight Sonata". They are understandable by anyone ))

For this reason I hate "smooth jazz", it is the same at each point. The goal of this kind of jazz is just to fill a restaurant with a sound without distracting clients from meal. It is easy understandable by public and satisfy jazz lovers - we are here! we are listening to "real" music, not to the dumb rap. But in fact it isn't a challenging music at all.
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#20

Сообщение gavenkoa »

gavenkoa пишет: 24 янв 2020, 14:56 We need to distinct our discussion from "popular" pieces, like "Moonlight Sonata". They are understandable by anyone ))
I want to say that some pieces so "usual" that I am no longer interested in them. I think of it as childish / trivial.

For this reason I don't listen to Deep Purple or Viktor Tsoi - it had impact when I was schoolboy. It isn't adult music, let it leave alone ))
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#21

Сообщение paveltashkinov »

What's your opinion about Wagner, folks?
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#22

Сообщение garans »

Zlatko_Berrin пишет: 23 янв 2020, 20:54
gavenkoa пишет: 23 янв 2020, 16:30 I find every piece of Mozart / Bach / Beethoven so dull.

And Mozart... How can this be dull?
I always feel awe while listening to Mozart.
Where this fear comes from?

Requiem supposed to give us rest and peace
Why fear?
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#23

Сообщение VictorB »

paveltashkinov пишет: 26 янв 2020, 06:52 What's your opinion about Wagner, folks?
One of mу favorites:

And does this ring a bell?
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#24

Сообщение gavenkoa »

Hi guys! I was impressed by Daphnis et Chloé - Ravel - Dutoit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daphnis_et_Chlo%C3%A9

It is music for a ballet but much frequently performed on its own:




He was the first musician who composed for the films. I don't know what kind of influence he had on the film industry but music sounds pretty familiar and standard, that means other took elements ))
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#25

Сообщение Zlatko_Berrin »

Mary May пишет: 24 янв 2020, 08:35 I do believe that, sooner or later, you'll appreciate some pieces of more modern music too.
Well, maybe. However, I like some pop songs, a strong voice and a good melody are the main criteria of my liking them.
Mary May пишет: 24 янв 2020, 08:35 Please give it a try and spend 6 min of your life listening to this post-modernist opus by Pavel Karmanov (just a part of it, actually)
Mary May пишет: 24 янв 2020, 08:35 Should I apologise for torturing? Guilty as charged. Anyway, it was not long )
You know, it was like listening to British English)))) (when I prefer American)
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