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Ленья
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#26

Сообщение Ленья »

acapnotic пишет: 31 окт 2019, 14:49 Those unwilling to work will freeze and get out of the way.
Natural selection at work)
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#27

Сообщение diggerzz »

Michelangelo пишет: 04 ноя 2019, 11:39 why should Putin invite Africans there
Can't help, but remember
https://yandex.ru/search/?text=who%20is ... %B8&lr=213
BTW, Chinese don't even live in abundance on their own north territories, just for the sake of the argument.
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#28

Сообщение Michelangelo »

diggerzz пишет: 04 ноя 2019, 12:40 Chinese don't even live in abundance on their own north territories
Because they are barrens as compared to the Siberian territories covered with forests.
Do you remember red guard during the Mao times? They send them to the North to cultivate plots higher than 2000 m above the sea level. It was just weird - similar to our comsomoletss who were sent to develop Celena.
Anyway, it could breathe a new life into the topic should we start discussing why Chinese live in vales and not in mountains :)
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#29

Сообщение acapnotic »

Michelangelo пишет: 04 ноя 2019, 11:39 As to Siberia - why should Putin invite Africans there, if there are a lot of Chinese citizens are already developing that territory?
Because Africans are going to lose their own territory and so have to accept any conditions. The Chinese can move to Canada. There is a lot of unoccupied land there as well. Besides, as far as I know, they plan to colonize the Moon.
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#30

Сообщение Michelangelo »

acapnotic пишет: 04 ноя 2019, 14:47 There is a lot of unoccupied land there as well.
Again, you are right, however, those unpopulated lands in Canada, they could be even more severe than the Krasnoyarsk and Irkuts, and Far East Regions and it is oversee anyway, which makes it more difficult for Chinese to go there even using modern transportation.
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#31

Сообщение acapnotic »

Michelangelo пишет: 04 ноя 2019, 14:53 and it is oversee anyway, which makes it more difficult for Chinese to go there even using modern transportation.
As soon as they have reached the Moon, they can jump from there to any part of the Earth. No place, however remote, will be guaranteed from this invasion. Do you think the Moon doesn't shine upon Canada?

Besides, I wouldn't be surprised if they had dug a tunnel under the ocean to Canada already. What do you think all those one and a half billion Chinese are doing every day? Making gadgets for us? He-he...
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#32

Сообщение Michelangelo »

acapnotic пишет: 04 ноя 2019, 15:39 Do you think the Moon doesn't shine upon Canada?
No. I don't think. I think you are absolutely right. However, first they have to colonise the Moon :)
Digging a tunnel is more likely :)
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#33

Сообщение Michelangelo »

Of course I am not sure that I can understand the current land policy of Russia, however, I could hear from those political scientists who interpret the some events, something worried - they express concerns about giving some territories away in 50-year rent to Chinese behind the Urals. Those people who live somewhere in the Far East say that the number of Chinese is drastically being increasing among the population and there are some settlements where only Chinese people live there now.

Of course it could be just seem that the process is developing quickly, however, it can take dozens of years before Chinese completely occupy the whole Siberia - we cannot be sure how fast it will go and how soon it will happen. However, the Russia and China policies are supportive at the moment.
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#34

Сообщение acapnotic »

Michelangelo, I don't think there can be friendship between countries. The elite of every country acts in their own interests. Countries can be allies for a while and then have a conflict and become rivals. I don't think our ruling guys are going to make such gifts to the Chinese. They don't even give away the small islands that Japan seems to want so desperately, and you are talking about huge territories.

Those who write about the great number of Chinese people in the Far East may not even live there. There is a lot of propaganda on the Internet.
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Olya
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#35

Сообщение Olya »

acapnotic,
I think there are certain plans to reform the Far East economy, they need good infrastructure first of all which is one of the main obstacles to development.
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#36

Сообщение Michelangelo »

acapnotic пишет: 07 ноя 2019, 17:50 The elite of every country acts in their own interests.
They act to accumulate as much as possible electronic zeros and ones, which are currently called by the word "money". I am not sure if they could think about anything else. Therefore, it is indifferent to them to whom they sell their countries, what matters to them is the offered amount of those zeros and ones in the computers on international banks.
Before they accumulated mountains of metal, then - mountains of paper, now they accumulate something which is absolutely elusive, even more elusive than metal or paper.
It seems to me sometimes that they are not people at all. They are a kind of those eaters of zeros from computer games who are running on the screen of displays and eat numbers.
Olya пишет: 09 ноя 2019, 13:41 there are certain plans
Aha, certain plans how to sell it at the highest price :) They have ruined almost everything there already not to leave to Chinese people anything, so that they could start from scratch :)
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#37

Сообщение acapnotic »

Michelangelo пишет: 03 дек 2019, 16:43 I am not sure if they could think about anything else.
About power. It is well known that Stalin, for example, didn't care much about money.
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#38

Сообщение Michelangelo »

acapnotic, Do you happen to know who robbed dozens of bank back then in the tsar Russia?
If he didn't need any money why he did that? We don't know whether he like robbing people afterwards, but it was not necessary as he believed he would live forever and be the dictator forever. Current authorities they believe in money more than in power, and they believe that money is power.
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#39

Сообщение acapnotic »

Michelangelo пишет: 04 дек 2019, 11:08 Do you happen to know who robbed dozens of bank back then in the tsar Russia?
Yes, but he did that to support the revolution, as far as I remember.
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#40

Сообщение Michelangelo »

acapnotic, I remember the same, however, now I started to have doubts whether it was fully true. Because he started to rob banks before his becoming a communist. And his history is mysterious and I am not sure that we have historians who know his history for sure. Anyway, it has not been disclosed yet.
Anyway, the times have changed and now we have different values from those of 100-years' prescription.
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#41

Сообщение acapnotic »

Michelangelo пишет: 04 дек 2019, 11:37 Because he started to rob banks before his becoming a communist.
But there were no Communists then in Russia, if I remember correctly. Even Lenin was a Social Democrat. So this is not a problem. The key is what Stalin spent that money on. Did he buy houses, cars, land, jewelry for himself? Did he spend them in restaurants, casinos and brothels? I don't remember reading anything like that. So he probably gave it to the party.
Michelangelo пишет: 04 дек 2019, 11:37 Anyway, the times have changed and now we have different values from those of 100-years' prescription.
I think human nature hasn't changed. Some people want power above all. They want to influence others, to decide, to choose for whole countries, to lead people to some glorious future. Money to them is just a means to this end. They have to use it because many people don't care about glorious future, they just want to have pleasures today. Later you may send those people to the Gulag because you can't trust them. If someone promises them more money, they may betray you. But today they may be of use and so you buy them for the money you have. However, you don't live for money, you live for the happiness of all, some day in the future, maybe a thousand years from now.
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#42

Сообщение Michelangelo »

acapnotic, you've caught me again :)
So he was a revolutioner without belonging to any revolutionary party - just expropriated expropriators :)
What did he do with money before he became a member of Lenin's party?
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#43

Сообщение acapnotic »

Michelangelo, I think he was a member already. If not, he probably put it in cases and buried in secret places. In order to dig it out later and organize a coup against the czar or maybe to blow him up when he visited Caucasus. But then Lenin turned up and said they would go another way.
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#44

Сообщение Michelangelo »

acapnotic, anyway, the case is a mystery and a trustworthy information is buried and maybe we won't ever learn how it was in reality. Maybe he loved money, maybe he loved the power, or maybe both of them - we don't know. We can only believe the information in open sources which are rarely reliable and often they are created by order of some people who prefer to hide some pieces of information or even mislead people.

I don't like what was going on under his rule, and I don't like what is going on now. I am aware of the historical course and God's will and it is weird to complain about what happened or what will happen, anyway it is sorrowful to know that something could be different for better, but wasn't, however, something could be even worse, therefore, we have to be thankful to Stalin and God that it wasn't so bad as could be :)
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#45

Сообщение acapnotic »

Michelangelo пишет: 05 дек 2019, 13:38 anyway it is sorrowful to know that something could be different for better, but wasn't
Actually, nothing could have been different. Cause and effect, you know. 2 and 2 can't make 5. If Stalin had had a different personality, then he would have behaved differently. But he didn't have a different personality. So, how could anything have been different? Why? Is there any point in regretting anything in the past? Isn't it the same as regretting that 2 and 2 make 4? But on the other hand, can we not regret it? We are built this way, this is how we work. We regret that 2 and 2 make 4, and we regret that we regret it. And so on, and so forth.
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#46

Сообщение Michelangelo »

acapnotic, Would you like to say that all the stories about bank robberies related to certain characters are all science fictions or even lies? Actually in our epoch everything is possible. I just know that when I studied at school at the end of 1960, we were taught that a number of bolsheviks robbed banks in order to get money to buy weapon and prepare the revolution. In 1990 there were a series of articles saying that those "revolutionists" robbed banks not only to buy weapon to support the revolution, but also to support their good life somewhere in Switzerland. I know that in 1990s there were a lot of lies, but I can say the same about the periods before the 1990s.
How can we know? Shall we just put our belief to what we want to believe in or shall we just change our beliefs depending on the current official policy?
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#47

Сообщение acapnotic »

Michelangelo, of course we should believe what we are told officially. Isn't this the safest way in life? After all, why do you need to know what those revolutionaries spent robbed money on? Does the quality of your life depend on that? I don't think so. You are free to believe today what you disbilieved yesterday, and tomorrow you can believe something else. If it doesn't change anything in your everyday life, why bother? Suppose tomorrow you learned for sure that Stalin spent his money on cards, wine and women, so what? What would that imply you should do? Jump off a skyscrapper? Marry and old blind Negro woman with one leg? Obviously not. You could simply continue your usual life. Some information matters and some doesn't. We should be able to distinguish between them and not engage in pointless arguments about purely theoretical (but politically dangerous) questions.

Besides, they made the revolution, didn't they? How can you make a revolution, sitting in Switzerland, without big money? If you think you can, you may try. Move to Switzerland and try to make a revolution in your country. How are you going to do that? Will you turn to telepathy? Well, now you at least have the Internet at your service, but in those old days they had to smuggle their revolutionary newspapers across the border and then distribute them among the target audience. That cost them money too.

As for their 'good life', I am sure they did it to deceive their enemies. Imagine that you are a revolutionary living in Switzerland. Obviously you can't walk the streets, decorated with machine-gun belts and hand granades. You would have to live there under some disguise, so that the enemies of the revolution couldn't find you out. So I think those guys simply played the roles of rich Russian playboys whose only purpose in life is immediate pleasure and who have absolutely nothing to do with revolution. So they just had to throw money around to play the role properly.
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#48

Сообщение someone »

I miss Irregardless...
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#49

Сообщение Michelangelo »

someone пишет: 16 янв 2020, 13:22 I miss Irregardless...
Why?

You can tell us your story about missing her once we have this thread where we can flood in English. :)
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#50

Сообщение Michelangelo »

acapnotic пишет: 10 янв 2020, 18:07 of course we should believe what we are told officially.
Of course the safest way in our life is to believe what we are told officially. Now, however, we have a number of TV programmes which we believe that contradict each other, and even the same channel can translate contradictory programmes or information. That is why we don’t know what to believe in. It has become like in that book by Orwell “1984” where people didn’t know what to believe in and started to believe only in what was said on TV currently, and forgot immediately what they had said the previous day. I didn’t like that feature of people who lived in that time. I prefer consistent memories. Now we are told things which contradict each other and you may opt in what to believe. You may believe in God and don’t watch television, you may believe in what you were taught during soviet time and consider everything that is being said now as lies. You can also believe in ongoing information which is changeable and choose to forget what you knew before and be an obedient servant of our government.
What is better? I don’t know. Even my belief in kindness could be shaken by such attack from the side of mass media governed by dishonest people at the steering wheel.
Does the quality of your life depend on that?
Whether the quality of our life depends on in what to believe, I don’t know. It is obvious for me that my psychological well-being depends greatly. If I could have a strong belief in something or someone, I would feel much better, drink less spirit, and be not so irritated. Consequently, my life would be felt as a better one as compared with that under irritating conditions.
Suppose tomorrow you learned for sure that Stalin spent his money on cards, wine and women, so what?
The question is not in whether I would learn that Stalin spent revolutionary money on women, but in whether it is supported by the current policy or not. I don’t know why but I would rather believe in something bad about our and non-our leaders than in good. It is my pessimism that makes me believe in bad things sooner than in good ones. Can I manage it? I think I can, but it isn’t going to be so easy. It would be even harder than learning a foreign language. I have a lot of various bugs grounded on my pessimism. I think optimistic people live better lives and take everything easier. I don’t know if it is good or not. I believe that the world needs the variety and in this respect as well.
Besides, they made the revolution, didn't they? How can you make a revolution, sitting in Switzerland, without big money?
Obviously they did. Again, there are various types of information where they got the money. And robbery was only a part of it. The theory that they were paid by Kaiser seems grounded. Therefore they could easily have been German spies who were intended to destroy our country, couldn’t they? Living in Switzerland and having everything they wanted was a good thing – who would refuse of all western values and live a life of a recluse? But then they killed millions of their so-called compatriots. Doesn’t it say that they were enemies of their people? Maybe even German spies? Couldn’t it be that robbery of the national banks either governmental or private was a part of their plot to make lives of Russian people worse? It is pretty possible that they wanted to make poor people poorer even long before the revolution, and when they took over the power in the country they started to exterminate people as such. That is why I think they were worse than German spies, they were aliens, and even reptiloids which are continuing to rule our countries nowadays as well. Therefore, they needed money to buy weapon from developed countries, but they didn’t need money to live on – they lived on people’s deaths.
As for their 'good life', I am sure they did it to deceive their enemies.
To some extend, they wanted to deceive their enemies, however, they could have deceived their enemies by living a simple life of poor people, but they wanted to live a simple life of rich people and there is a difference between those who wanted to improve living conditions of their people and those who wanted to improve their own conditions.
They could have lived under disguise of beggars – what will it change in the historical development? Living as beggars they would accumulate even more money and realize the revolution sooner. But they didn’t care. They waited until bourgeoisie threw the tsar and in the period of hesitation and German aggression they just took advantage of the situation and took over the power without putting much effort. Wasn’t it dishonest act from their side? It was as a matter of fact.

I could agree with your statements but to the extend only, because you are looking only at one side of the issue, but there could be different sides and different people could be involved and I am not sure that after revolution only bad people were killed by Lenin and Stalin. It is likely that they didn’t choose whom to kill. They just wanted to diminish the population and live on the deaths of the killed. Because the majority of them if not all are reptiloids.
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