Why can’t I attach and fix speech patterns to mind to help for speaking?

Discuss any questions in English. Practise your writing skills.

Модератор: zymbronia

Аватара пользователя
Johnwesleyhardin
Сообщения: 241
Зарегистрирован: 04 мар 2018, 15:10
Благодарил (а): 44 раза
Поблагодарили: 59 раз

#1

Сообщение Johnwesleyhardin »

Hello everyone

For a long time I’ve been wondering why since the time I’ve been learning English, (I mean everything: writing, reading, etc) Speech patterns that I see while reading and listening cannot be attached to the speaking part of the mind. When we read or listen in Russian, we attach to speaking and writing all the speech patterns and constructions instantly, we do not realize it, we even may not practice them, of course, it may happen not at once, but at least after you meet them 3 or 5 times. One day we began to notice that we unexpectedly can say new patterns.
In English it doesn’t happen like that. Everything is much worse than in Russian: I tried to use the method «listen and repeat», tried to make my own sentences and examples, remember sentences etc. At first it seemed it helped but then I felt disappointed because all the things that I did before had slipped from my mind. I couldn’t remember what I had learned two weeks before. One day I thought that I can’t attach anything because I use too difficult materials for me, materials where I meet 40-50 unknown words on page. So I decided to use materials that are little bit harder than my current lever or in the same level. I read and listened them a lot, the result is the same – nothing can be attached for speaking even I easily understand almost everything, even I enjoy and get emotional charge from listening and reading.


I don’t know how much time must pass and what I should do so that everything starts attaching and I start obtaining phrases ready for speaking
Dragon27
Сообщения: 2163
Зарегистрирован: 01 мар 2018, 06:57
Благодарил (а): 32 раза
Поблагодарили: 847 раз

#2

Сообщение Dragon27 »

Theoretically, if you stick to it long enough, eventually it will start happening :)

Well, I don't know, listen to comprehensible (and enjoyable) input, until you can understand it perfectly well, and be able to repeat a random phrase you hear (a sentence or two) at the first try without mistakes (and with good intonation and pronunciation) and with full understanding of its overall meaning and the meaning of its constituent parts. Try to attach some emotion, picture, situation to the phrase you're repeating (and hope to retain in your memory, or at least influence your own speaking repertoire), imagine in what situation you can use it (and then, maybe, actually use it later, after a day or two has passed). Try playing with the phrase, changing it in some way (changing the grammar, objects, subject), embed it in some other expressions you already know, etc.

The better you know the language the easier it is for you to make interesting phrases stick to your mind. Work at it more. And don't get discouraged, these things can take quite some time to produce tangible results.

An article that came to mind:
www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/language-is-peeing/
Последний раз редактировалось Dragon27 06 июл 2019, 15:01, всего редактировалось 4 раза.
За это сообщение автора Dragon27 поблагодарили (всего 3):
mustang, ellina, Johnwesleyhardin
Eager Beaver
Сообщения: 3222
Зарегистрирован: 12 авг 2018, 14:01
Благодарил (а): 901 раз
Поблагодарили: 1191 раз

#3

Сообщение Eager Beaver »

Dragon27 пишет: 06 июл 2019, 14:38 if you stick to it long enough, eventually it will start happening :)
Can you define "long enough" please? :)
Dragon27
Сообщения: 2163
Зарегистрирован: 01 мар 2018, 06:57
Благодарил (а): 32 раза
Поблагодарили: 847 раз

#4

Сообщение Dragon27 »

Eager Beaver пишет: 06 июл 2019, 14:48 Can you define "long enough" please? :)
"long enough" usually means "until you get it". The "enough" part is crucial.
tourist
Сообщения: 1765
Зарегистрирован: 04 мар 2018, 21:25
Благодарил (а): 249 раз
Поблагодарили: 865 раз

#5

Сообщение tourist »

Johnwesleyhardin,
When did you start listening to/speaking Russian?
How long have you been speaking Russian?
What about English ?
See ?
Eager Beaver
Сообщения: 3222
Зарегистрирован: 12 авг 2018, 14:01
Благодарил (а): 901 раз
Поблагодарили: 1191 раз

#6

Сообщение Eager Beaver »

Johnwesleyhardin, unless you spend the next 30 years reading, listening, speaking and writing only in English, you won't get there. Have patience. :)
За это сообщение автора Eager Beaver поблагодарил:
VictorB
Eager Beaver
Сообщения: 3222
Зарегистрирован: 12 авг 2018, 14:01
Благодарил (а): 901 раз
Поблагодарили: 1191 раз

#7

Сообщение Eager Beaver »

Dragon27 пишет: 06 июл 2019, 14:38 Well, I don't know, listen to comprehensible (and enjoyable) input, until you can understand it perfectly well, and be able to repeat a random phrase you hear (a sentence or two) at the first try without mistakes (and with good intonation and pronunciation) and with full understanding of its overall meaning and the meaning of its constituent parts. Try to attach some emotion, picture, situation to the phrase you're repeating (and hope to retain in your memory, or at least influence your own speaking repertoire), imagine in what situation you can use it (and then, maybe, actually use it later, after a day or two has passed). Try playing with the phrase, changing it in some way (changing the grammar, objects, subject), embed it in some other expressions you already know, etc.
The more I learn English, the more strongly I believe that OUTPUT is no less important than INPUT. You have to practice actually using patterns (words, whatever) that you want to stick. In more meaningful situations you use them - consciously and effectively, that is - the better the chances that these patterns will come to mind when another similar situation presents itself.
Аватара пользователя
VictorB
Сообщения: 3396
Зарегистрирован: 26 янв 2019, 15:27
Благодарил (а): 821 раз
Поблагодарили: 706 раз

#8

Сообщение VictorB »

Eager Beaver пишет: 06 июл 2019, 15:19 unless you spend the next 30 years reading, listening, speaking and writing only in English, you won't get there.
No sooner than that. And the key word in the comment is "only")
Аватара пользователя
Johnwesleyhardin
Сообщения: 241
Зарегистрирован: 04 мар 2018, 15:10
Благодарил (а): 44 раза
Поблагодарили: 59 раз

#9

Сообщение Johnwesleyhardin »

tourist пишет: 06 июл 2019, 14:58 Johnwesleyhardin,
When did you start listening to/speaking Russian?
How long have you been speaking Russian?
What about English ?
See ?
I got it. You want to say that I attach or stick patterns in Russian easily because I've been listening to it since childhood, i.e too many years. But when a child comes to the world, he actually also starts learning his native language and as far as I know it usually takes him 2 or 3 years depending on abilities and health condition. And it is curious that he listens to ununderstandable language for him and suddenly one day starts speaking. I've been learning English 7 years, but because of the breaks and circumstances that prevented me from learning if we count only years when I actually learnt it (listened, read, wrote etc) 3 or 3,5 years. So in 3 and 3,5 years I sticked too little and didn't suddenly realise that patterns came to mind when they needed. Only the most basic and easy words come but not another lots of words I read before. And considering that most of participants here write that in 3 and 3,5 years they achieved good level, there is no different between child and those who learn language as foreign because it takes for both of them 3 years. So I can't aware what's wrong with me
Аватара пользователя
acapnotic
Сообщения: 3912
Зарегистрирован: 02 мар 2018, 07:49
Благодарил (а): 279 раз
Поблагодарили: 922 раза

#10

Сообщение acapnotic »

Johnwesleyhardin пишет: 06 июл 2019, 22:29 So I can't aware what's wrong with me
I see at least one major difference between you and a child: motivation. The child is struggling for a means of communication with people that control his well-being. I don't think English is as important for your life. It's probably more of a hobby, a toy. That's why you can learn it, then drop it, then learn it again. Nothing really bad will happen even if you drop it forever.
Eager Beaver
Сообщения: 3222
Зарегистрирован: 12 авг 2018, 14:01
Благодарил (а): 901 раз
Поблагодарили: 1191 раз

#11

Сообщение Eager Beaver »

acapnotic пишет: 07 июл 2019, 13:01
Johnwesleyhardin пишет: 06 июл 2019, 22:29 So I can't aware what's wrong with me
I see at least one major difference between you and a child: motivation. The child is struggling for a means of communication with people that control his well-being. I don't think English is as important for your life. It's probably more of a hobby, a toy. That's why you can learn it, then drop it, then learn it again. Nothing really bad will happen even if you drop it forever.
Children are also genuinely interested. They don't know what's important or relevant and what's not. They constantly seek feedback from their parents (words, facial expressions, other clues and reactions) for anything new they do. Adults don't usually do this.
Dragon27
Сообщения: 2163
Зарегистрирован: 01 мар 2018, 06:57
Благодарил (а): 32 раза
Поблагодарили: 847 раз

#12

Сообщение Dragon27 »

Johnwesleyhardin пишет: 06 июл 2019, 22:29 But when a child comes to the world, he actually also starts learning his native language and as far as I know it usually takes him 2 or 3 years depending on abilities and health condition.
A two-three year child speaking abilities are still rather primitive. Take a look at this chart:
https://childdevelopment.com.au/resourc ... ent-chart/

A child's brain is still developing during the early years of their childhood. The stuff they learn during this time, when their brains are still forming, affects them on a much deeper level. Children (due to the differences in their brain biochemistry) have a much stronger ability to concentrate than grown-ups. Besides, children don't know any other language they can fall back on, so they have no other choice. And they don't have other "competing" language structures that prevent them from acquiring new ones. They are, of course, fully immersed in the language environment all day long.
Ответить
  • Похожие темы
    Ответы
    Просмотры
    Последнее сообщение

Вернуться в «Practise Your English»