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Discuss any questions in English. Practise your writing skills.

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Mary May
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#26

Сообщение Mary May »

Yety пишет: 28 окт 2019, 23:43Непонятно, что...
You've just been thanked, I guess (?)
No?
:))
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#27

Сообщение Mary May »

alanta пишет: 29 окт 2019, 15:14 P.S. И да - дислайк вам за пост #406, то бишь за тот, на который я отвечала ;) - за "изящную" попытку неперехода на личности)).
The wrong call, I'm afraid.
Usually don't go to great lengths to avoid it:
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Mary May пишет: 15 окт 2019, 13:19
JamesTheBond, пишет: 15 окт 2019, 11:48 искать аргументы без перехода на личности оппонентов.
По-моему, это гораздо лучше, чем когда пишут что-то вроде "вы там все в вашем совке" или "все преподаватели" или "эти москвичи/хохлы..." и т.п.
И честнее. Что дурного в том, чтобы обратиться непосредственно к тому, кого имеешь в виду/дать понять, КТО имеется в виду? Или лучше всех скопом поливать - "одним ударом семерых"? И не придерешься - ведь никакого "перехода на личности".
What I do hate, is OVERgeneralization:
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alanta пишет: 29 окт 2019, 13:03 не помню, чтобы хоть один из тех, кто называет себя преподавателем говорил что-то про то, что помимо УМК важно просто слушать что-то...
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#28

Сообщение Mary May »

Мысли вслух о нашей школе
Actually, this has nothing to do with teaching English, or teaching at all, or the great issue of "Russian educational system". Just a real-life story I'd like to share here.

A friend of mine works in a school in the west of Moscow. When we talked the other day, she mentioned that she felt a bit under the weather because of the vaccination the day before. It would be only natural for me to assume it was an annual planned anti-flu vaccination. But it wasn't the case.
She told me that it appeared they had several cases of bacterial pneumonia at school. For a while, the disease had been affecting a few classes, with someone getting ill and then recovering, then others getting ill... and the school administration preferring to put a blind eye on the alarming facts. Who knows how long they'd manage to ignore the situation, but ultimately, two kids were rushed to a hospital, one of them in rather a serious condition.
Only after that, they could no longer sweep the dust under the rug and some measures, including vaccination, were taken...
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#29

Сообщение FPlay »

Mary May пишет: 10 ноя 2019, 21:05 preferring to put a blind eye on the alarming facts
as far as I know the correct form of this idiom is turn a blind eye
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#30

Сообщение Mary May »

FPlay,
Thanks )
Actually, I know knew it ((
https://images.app.goo.gl/TZ5ft6dWmAV6Udgf8
Anything else?
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#31

Сообщение Mary May »

Sorry, I won't join the discussion )
Meowth пишет: 10 ноя 2019, 22:57 Екатерина II, а точнее то, какой её описал Пушкин в "Капитанской дочке". Светлый образ императрицы, помиловавшей Гринева. А как на самом деле Пушкин относился к Екатерине II? Почему тогда такое расхождение между его убеждениями и тем, что написано в "Капитанской дочке"? Какие причины заставили сделать его именно так?
Actually, it's not that straightforward.
Maybe, you don't remember the very last hilarious passage about an estate, happily co-owned by Masha and Petrusha's dozen sons? A fair and generous reward to captain Mironov's daughter, indeed...
Neither was Pushkin naive nor was he flattering the authorities.
Светлый образ - it was the way Masha saw her, not the author )

cherkas пишет: 10 ноя 2019, 21:15
Meowth пишет: 10 ноя 2019, 21:12 Когда стихотворения Тютчева и Фета о природе стали недетскими?
Всегда.
They were not written for kids, agree. To really appreciate Тютчев, you should reach the age of... don't know... the age of maturity (for someone, that means '"never" )))
But - there IS a layer (one of a few) in these poems that may strongly appeal to a child, too. Later on, grown-ups may discover new senses in some rhymes/books of their early childhood. Or may not...
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#32

Сообщение FPlay »

Mary May пишет: 10 ноя 2019, 21:05 It would be only natural for me to assume it was an annual planned anti-flu vaccination.
routine annual influenza vaccination неплохо гуглится
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#33

Сообщение FPlay »

Mary May пишет: 10 ноя 2019, 21:05 Who knows how long they'd manage to ignore the situation
раз уж излагаем в идиоматическом ключе, то
Who knows how long they'd manage to hide their heads in the sand
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#34

Сообщение Meowth »

Mary May пишет: 10 ноя 2019, 23:27 Светлый образ - it was the way Masha saw her, not the author )
Повесть все же Пушкин написал, а не Маша. И зачем-то ему потребовалось создать именно такой образ, пусть и в том, как видела его Маша.
FPlay пишет: 10 ноя 2019, 23:50 They were not written for kids
Но вошли в круг детского чтения. Так бывает.
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#35

Сообщение FPlay »

Meowth, misquotation )
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#36

Сообщение Mary May »

Meowth пишет: 10 ноя 2019, 23:57 Но вошли в круг детского чтения. Так бывает.
Agree!
Meowth пишет: 10 ноя 2019, 23:57 Повесть все же Пушкин написал, а не Маша.
So what? Can't see the point, I'm afraid.
FPlay пишет: 10 ноя 2019, 23:50 раз уж излагаем в идиоматическом ключе, то
Wouldn't it be too densely packed with idioms?
Remember that Checkov's character who would speak шутками-прибаутками only?
A bit annoying (?)

BTW, FPlay, Meowth, excuse me, but could I draw your attention to the fact that we're in Practise your English subforum. You must have missed it - it happens.
So Russian is not very welcome here )
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#37

Сообщение FPlay »

Mary May пишет: 11 ноя 2019, 00:07 Wouldn't it be too densely packed with idioms?
For the given piece of writing? No, it wouldn't, I believe. In my opinion, all suggested idioms are to the point and for the moment they do not violate good taste.
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#38

Сообщение Mary May »

September пишет: 11 ноя 2019, 00:56 Если читать прекрасные книги о добре и зле и замечать, что учитель не реагирует на буллинг в классе, не очень-то книги помогут сделать правильные выводы.
cherkas пишет: 11 ноя 2019, 00:52 И тут я вспоминаю диалог из Friends, где дети приходят в собачий шелтер. Так вот этот текст и подобные учат заботиться о животных куда больше, чем вышеописанное произведение, потому что не только про порыдать, а про пути решения проблемы.
No. Literature is not a direct straightforward manual about "How to behave/how to (practically) deal with this or that issue". If "the Great Russian Literature" used to try to answer such direct questions as Кто виноват?/Что делать? - that was a substitute for other (lacking) aspects of social life. No wonder, that that illusion, that false assumption was eagerly supported in Soviet times - that literature should "lead somewhere"/"teach something positive".
It's not what literature is about. Just like music. Please, not that blunt.
Literature (like music) gives you shelter, provides with the strength to survive in the hostile world, gives you some outer perspective to your everyday troubles. I know what I'm talking about, believe me. Because school bullying is not the most terrifying thing in the world - it is something that you can - and should - survive and leave behind. But without this "outer perspective," when you're left to your own, it can lead to real tragedies, as all of us know...

Perhaps, what I said here has little to do with teaching literature at school. But - how else would you know that it exists somewhere there - maybe, waiting for you to come one day?

mustang пишет: 11 ноя 2019, 13:59 Почему же у сегодняшних детей отнимают право знакомиться с авторами -современниками?
How can you deprive them, I wonder?
mustang пишет: 11 ноя 2019, 13:48 в школе ученики полны озорства, беспечности
All of them? Sure? Even if so, does it mean they are not able to undestand anything different?
Because
mikka пишет: 11 ноя 2019, 14:43 Не стоит недооценивать детей.
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#39

Сообщение cherkas »

Mary May пишет: 11 ноя 2019, 14:53 Literature is not a direct straightforward manual about "How to behave/how to (practically) deal with this or that issue".
Sure. But "conservatives", let call them this way, do insist that literature should or even must teach practical things. In fact, it mostly does.
But if not, where is the music in this particular piece of literature? It might be there, but even me, in my much more than 20ies, have got so many negative emotions surrounding me, though, that I'd never take this book in my hands. I'am absolutely not too sensitive, believe me. In a way, not at all. And I read books like that as a kid, but these days, now, I would never make any child read such a grievous book as their obligatory curriculum.
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#40

Сообщение Mary May »

Great.
It looks like, to (almost) everyone's satisfaction, the discussion ended with comparing and contrasting wet and long.
I bitterly regret that I got involved, really sorry indeed.
I asked to delete the two posts I "contributed" to that thread. My thanks to Mikka for that - she did it fast.
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#41

Сообщение Mary May »

вы присваиваете себе чужие вопросы...
What a brilliantly coined phrase!
The proud author should definitely apply for a patent. Not protected by copyright, the phrase has all chances to become this forum's common treasure - and that would be a gross violation of intellectual property rights, wouldn't it?
I personally like it so much that, probably, will be the first one to take it on board. Temptation's too strong )
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#42

Сообщение Mary May »

Subject: Семинары, выставки, конференции и прочие события
olgusha-79 пишет: 05 фев 2020, 14:57 Коллеги, кто проходил курсы в Lexical Lab ? Я уже оплатила, хочу съездить в июле. Какие у вас были впечатления?
olgusha-79,
Sorry, I can't answer the question as you put it, because I've never done a course at Hugh & Andrew's London school (only in Peterburg, Moscow and Yaroslavl).
I really envy you )
Am I right: it's a done deal already - you booked the course?
Then, no criticisms would make you change your mind - they just shouldn't! Still, they could discourage you or, at the very least, spoil the joy of anticipation. I don't know why and how it happened, but it seems to be considered (almost) good manners here lately to frown on Hugh Dellar's seminars, his books and him personally.
My words here mean to pre-empt some of the negative comments I feel may be made.
Please, don't let anything make you upset.
You're just bound to have a great time and enjoy your studies there, I'm absolutely sure.
Good luck and my very best wishes!
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#43

Сообщение olgusha-79 »

Mary May пишет: 05 фев 2020, 23:41 it's a done deal already - you booked the course?
Mary May, thank you for your reply and encouraging words. Yes, you're right. I've already paid for the course and accommodation. None of the negative comments towards Hugh Dellar and Andrew Walkley can prevent me from going there or make me reconsider my decision. I'm absolutely sure I'll have a great time there.I'm really looking forward to it. I just wanted to hear some advice. By the way, I attended Andrew Walkley's seminar last year and was really impressed. I just wonder why some people criticise them. Actually, there is always a couple of dissatisfied people.
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#44

Сообщение Mary May »

Subject: Не устали ли мы от флуда, "капитанов очевидностей", хейтеров?
acapnotic пишет: 19 фев 2020, 08:39 на нейтивном форуме, только гораздо реже, т.к. писать вокруг да около вы там не сможете -- не с кем. Не интересна нейтивам писанина ради писанины.
In a way, I agree.
But - let us take the Russian part of this forum as an example familiar to all of us. Would you say here's no place for repetition, for beating around the bush or just running round in circles again and again? Writing for the sake of writing - "practising our mother tongue" - is quite a common thing here. Why would English forums be any different?
And here I'm turning to my next point.
I italised the words above to draw attention to the fact that English forums, more often than not, are just those where English is no more, no less but lingua franca. In these international communities, the odds to meet a notorious native English speaker are equal or even lower than a person for whom English is their second or foreign language.
[mention]gavenkoa[/mention] might appreciate me trying to support my claims with facts and figures :), although it seems so very obvious, that might be redundant. But sometimes figures speak volumes - far more than words.
http://www.stgeorges.co.uk/blog/learn-e ... ak-english
Let me do some maths.
If, according to 2006 statistics provided by David Crystal, appr.400 million people spoke English as their native language + 400 more million as their 2nd language, then even the total number of them was comparable to around 600-700 million speaking EFL. Which gives us the proportions of 800/650 (native+2nd/foreign) or even 400/1050 (native/all others).
I wish I could find and present more recent data if it didn't require more time than I have at hand right now. As far as I can't, what follows is nothing more than my speculations, unsupported by solid evidence.
Nevertheless, it seems very likely that the number of EFL-speakers has grown sufficiently, while the number of native speakers has stayed practically the same, birth rates in the US, Canada, Australia and the UK being far behind the average. So, it could be a plausible guess that the proportion might have shifted in favour of the first group. Mind it, that among the second group (for whom English is not foreign, but their 1st or 2nd language) are millions of Indians, Pakistani, Nigerians etc with their own ***shes:
https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-20500312
My point is, that on almost each and every English forum it is much more probable to come across non-native speakers rather than those who've spoken the language since their birth or early childhood. What is more: if some of the examples of Runglish we can easily pinpoint (and thus avoid), other ***lishes - if taken with a lack of criticism - could come unnoticed or mistakenly recognised as the English we should learn and practise.

acapnotic пишет: 18 фев 2020, 17:49 Суть практики не в этом. Это доведение до автоматизма того, что знаешь сам. Самых простых слов и конструкций в том числе.
That's exactly what I'm doing here: practising the words and structures I already know.
Or I think I know ))
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#45

Сообщение acapnotic »

Mary May пишет: 21 фев 2020, 10:07 But - let us take the Russian part of this forum as an example familiar to all of us. Would you say here's no place for repetition, for beating around the bush or just running round in circles again and again? Writing for the sake of writing - "practising our mother tongue" - is quite a common thing here.
Well, I don't think writing is the goal there. The goal is rather boosting the ego or bickering, giving vent to negative emotions. Writing is a means to that end, no more. Therefore the atmosphere is far from relaxed. While if two or more people come together strictly for writing, then writing is the goal, and everything else is secondary. For that reason, it doesn't matter much who is right or wrong in the discussion, since it's simply an excuse for writing. You just play with some ideas, not really trying to prove anything seriously. Such peaceful and friendly conversation can go on and on with little stress and much opportunity for practice.

A heated argument can be very motivating, but even if you are OK with the strain, there is still the question where your focus of attention will be. Most likely on what you say, not on how.
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#46

Сообщение acapnotic »

Mary May пишет: 21 фев 2020, 10:07 That's exactly what I'm doing here: practising the words and structures I already know.
Or I think I know ))
+1 :)
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#47

Сообщение gavenkoa »

Mary May пишет: 21 фев 2020, 10:07 other ***lishes - if taken with a lack of criticism - could come unnoticed or mistakenly recognised as the English we should learn and practise.
And even some colloquial English went away, no more https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raining_cats_and_dogs
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#48

Сообщение gavenkoa »

acapnotic пишет: 21 фев 2020, 11:22 While if two or more people come together strictly for writing, then writing is the goal, and everything else is secondary
Shit, man. You nailed it!

Thus the problem is to partner with someone reasonable to support you (and benefit from it yourself) for necessary practice, information or discussion.

In other way - STAY ON TOPIC!

You can swear if it is a goal to practice offensive language, but that is what is the intent of participants.
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#49

Сообщение alanta »

Mary May пишет: 21 фев 2020, 10:07 My point is, that on almost each and every English forum it is much more probable to come across non-native speakers rather than those who've spoken the language since their birth or early childhood. What is more: if some of the examples of Runglish we can easily pinpoint (and thus avoid), other ***lishes - if taken with a lack of criticism - could come unnoticed or mistakenly recognised as the English we should learn and practise.
If you know what native-speakers' writing looks like, in most cases, you'll be able to spot the difference between ***lishes and English. Of course, there are non-natives who can write as natives or even better but they are minority.
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#50

Сообщение Michelangelo »

alanta пишет: 21 фев 2020, 14:16 you'll be able to spot the difference between ***lishes and English
It depends. I could mix up some natives' constructions because they could be new to me. Of course, I won't be able to distinguish even Runglish if it is a high level Runglish like C1 or C2
It is easy to spot those -ish of low levels but those of high levels - you must have an almost native level yourself to spot them.

Not so easy particularly if you have dozens people from various countries and read them for a while - first they are all different, I mean their writing is different, then you get used to it and take it for granted. Of course if there are obvious mistakes, you can spot them.
alanta пишет: 21 фев 2020, 14:16 here are non-natives who can write as natives or even better but they are minority.
It seems to us, but not to natives.
I heard how a native corrected each sentence in a speech of a C2 certified student. They use proper grammar, but they cannot use colloquial language properly. If our students try to use "formal language" - that native made much less corrections because the formal language was Greek to him and he couldn't understand whether it was a correct English language, or just he just was unable to spot any misusing of it. It is not so easy unless you are a native linguist who works in this field.
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