Should we live longer?

Discuss any questions in English. Practise your writing skills.

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acapnotic
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#1

Сообщение acapnotic »

Now and then I come across the opinion that aging and death are just diseases and can be cured in the future. But I always wonder how the proponents of this idea are going to tackle the consequences. Which seem pretty obvious. The only planet we can live on is already overcrowded. If people begin to die later or never at all, there will be less or no room for new generations. But I believe we need them. Because you can't teach an old dog new tricks. You have to replace it with a younger one.

There are exceptions to the rule, to be sure, but they don't change the general picture. So I think that for the sake of our evolution as humankind we will have to restrict the length of our lives anyway. Even if it becomes technically possible to live much longer.
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#2

Сообщение tourist »

acapnotic,
... you can't teach an old dog new tricks. You have to replace it with a younger one.
An actual story :
I mentioned to someone that an operation on my old-ish dog would cost X amount.
Wow,the guy replied,
for this money you could buy three brand new puppies....
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acapnotic
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#3

Сообщение acapnotic »

tourist
Pets don't count. If you want a 1000-year-old dog, why not? Dogs don't care about their evolution. They are fed by their masters. But if your 1000-year-old dog were intelligent enough, he would likely not approve of your living as long. Because that would decrease the flexibility of humankind and endanger its survival, and thereby the well-being of dogs.
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#4

Сообщение Mary May »

acapnotic пишет: 19 апр 2019, 08:47 But I always wonder how the proponents of this idea are going to tackle the consequences.
I guess the enthusiastic "proponents of the idea" haven't read Jonathan Swift (or maybe haven't gone further than children's adaptation of his book).
An impressive extract - not, perhaps, about the consequences of immortality for humankind but rather about its very dubious value:
https://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/s/swift/ ... ter26.html

So I think that for the sake of our evolution as humankind we will have to restrict the length of our lives anyway. Even if it becomes technically possible to live much longer.
Isn't it really the mercy of nature to be deprived of the choice like this?
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#5

Сообщение acapnotic »

Mary May пишет: 19 апр 2019, 15:16 Isn't it really the mercy of nature to be deprived of the choice like this?
Nature is merciless. If it really had mercy, the mechanism of our termination would be more humane. We would all die in sleep without suffering. And would never outlive our wits.
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#6

Сообщение Olya »

Sadly, life is short but many believe in the light at the end of this tunnel.)
I think that if people could choose, some might reject the suggestion that they should live endlessly.
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#7

Сообщение Mary May »

acapnotic пишет: 19 апр 2019, 15:59
Mary May пишет: 19 апр 2019, 15:16 Isn't it really the mercy of nature to be deprived of the choice like this?
Nature is merciless.
It really is.
That's why I italized the words - they are just the figure of speech.
Still, not having to face this choice is the thing I personally feel grateful to... I don't know what.
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#8

Сообщение Kind_Punk »

acapnotic пишет: 19 апр 2019, 08:47 Which seem pretty obvious.
Not so obvious. Even now a lot of people have only one child or none at all. So if the life is longer, women will stop giving birth )
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#9

Сообщение acapnotic »

Olya пишет: 19 апр 2019, 16:00 Sadly, life is short but many believe in the light at the end of this tunnel.)
I think that if people could choose, some might reject the suggestion that they should live endlessly.
That's the thought I have sometimes too. If there's some thruth in the idea of afterlife, what's the point of getting stuck here? It would be a really silly thing to do. The problem is we don't know anything for sure.
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#10

Сообщение Easy-Breezy English »

Nature has a way of balancing itself out. Humans are a lot more likely to self-destruct than to ever get immortality into mass production. So, I wouldn’t worry about it too much.
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#11

Сообщение Easy-Breezy English »

Kind_Punk пишет: 19 апр 2019, 16:09 So if the life is longer, women will stop giving birth )
We are looking at a serious infertility problem already, and it’s only going to get worse, mostly due to environmental pollution. Plastic pollution in particular is screwing up our hormones big time.

Not to mention that by improving medical care we have severely limited natural selection, too. Look at the infant mortality a hundred years ago and now. We are accumulating genetic mistakes rapidly and passing them on to our children.

Some go as far as to speculate that in a few of generations women won’t be able to have babies at all. While I don’t necessarily subscribe to that view, I don’t think overpopulation due to immortality is high on our list of problems. ))
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#12

Сообщение acapnotic »

Kind_Punk пишет: 19 апр 2019, 16:09 Not so obvious. Even now a lot of people have only one child or none at all. So if the life is longer, women will stop giving birth )
But that's exactly the solution I don't like. One way or another, we come to a world inhabited by the same old people for centuries, or even thousands of years.
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#13

Сообщение Kind_Punk »

Easy-Breezy English пишет: 19 апр 2019, 17:54 Not to mention that by improving medical care we have severely limited natural selection, too.
I totally agree. The future shown in the short story "Yoo Retoont, Sneogg. Ay Noo" is what will come.
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#14

Сообщение acapnotic »

Easy-Breezy English пишет: 19 апр 2019, 17:47 Nature has a way of balancing itself out. Humans are a lot more likely to self-destruct than to ever get immortality into mass production. So, I wouldn’t worry about it too much.
Not that I am worrying too much, just wondering how people can be enthusiastic about longer life or even immortality when they don't have a solution to their obvious problematic consequences. But who knows, maybe they don't intend it to be for everyone.
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#15

Сообщение Easy-Breezy English »

acapnotic пишет: 19 апр 2019, 18:15 maybe they don't intend it to be for everyone.
I'll say.
You can rest assured that it's not for the likes of me and you. That's one problem off our chest! ))
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#16

Сообщение gavenkoa »

acapnotic пишет: 19 апр 2019, 08:47 death are just diseases and can be cured in the future
I am not completely sure but it looks like our DNA contains "counters" on the ends. Look for Telomere at:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telomerase
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayflick_limit

Each cell division Telomere reduces its size until division becomes impossible. Some cells, like embryonic stem cells divide using a bit different schema and are immortal.

I can't tell you how many human cell divisions are possible (I saw reports about 50-70 times before cell death) but we all have count down clocks inside each and every cell ((
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#17

Сообщение acapnotic »

gavenkoa, yes, I've heard of that too. But I am not concerned with the mechanism. My question is whether we should disable it or not. Would it be better or worse for humankind if people began to live singinficantly longer?

If this mechanism of aging can be turned off, I don't see why the problem of infertility can't be solved in the same way. Or why the aversion of women to giving birth can't be somehow circumvented. I think those are temporary obstacles.
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#18

Сообщение Olya »

Gradually people are living longer and longer. And they are looking younger, I mean ordinary people who haven't had plastic surgery. So I think this mechanism has already been included in the process of our living.
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#19

Сообщение acapnotic »

People live longer thanks to medicine. They look younger because they don't have beards. For example, look at this guy: wouldn't he look younger without it? https://www.ted.com/talks/aubrey_de_gre ... void_aging
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#20

Сообщение gavenkoa »

Olya пишет: 20 апр 2019, 09:58 Gradually people are living longer and longer.
As it said it is due to development of medicine. Good bye cholera and tuberculosis ))

Also not that it usually means increasing of average age not absolute maximum:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expe ... ctancy.png

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy

It is fascinating that 50 years ago my parents might had died but now they are only at start of life decay.
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#21

Сообщение Olya »

acapnotic пишет: 20 апр 2019, 10:50 People live longer thanks to medicine. They look younger because they don't have beards. For example, look at this guy: wouldn't he look younger without it? https://www.ted.com/talks/aubrey_de_gre ... void_aging
Have women ever grown beards? ))
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#22

Сообщение tourist »

Have women ever grown beards? ))
sometimes
btw, it's not her beard that impresses me, but her chest ..

also remember Conchita Wurst ? )
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#23

Сообщение Olya »

Now that we know whom to call 'bearded women', we come to a bit tricky question - How many of them live long and look young? ))
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#24

Сообщение acapnotic »

Olya пишет: 20 апр 2019, 19:45 Have women ever grown beards? ))
They don't have to. If half the population turned fat, for example, wouldn't you think "People have become so fat"? It doesn't require all of them for you to have that impression. The same with beards. Men are people too, aren't they? :)
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#25

Сообщение acapnotic »

Olya пишет: 20 апр 2019, 20:43 Now that we know whom to call 'bearded women', we come to a bit tricky question - How many of them live long and look young? ))
Well, you could grow a beard and see if you look younger. Some hormones would help, I guess. :)
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