Well, well, well ...and mine, too!

Discuss any questions in English. Practise your writing skills.

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Роман Молти
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#101

Сообщение Роман Молти » 30 авг 2018, 16:30

Sorry for chiming in. I want to draw your attention to a mistake that even native speakers make.
alanta пишет:
30 авг 2018, 15:22
For me, as a reader the text is hard to read.
Looks like that sneaky bold intruder has no respect for borders. Left to its own devices, it will remain an illegal alien in your main clause.

Make your sentence great again!

I can offer a couple of suggestions.
1) For me as a reader, the text is hard to read (or skim through).
2)As a reader, I find the text hard to skim through (or read).

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#102

Сообщение alanta » 30 авг 2018, 16:48

Роман Молти пишет:
30 авг 2018, 16:30
Sorry for chiming in. I want to draw your attention to a mistake that even native speakers make.
the comma after "for me"? What can I say -- I'm not an expert in English punctuation :)
I guess, if I had paid more attention to the sentence while writing it I would've written "For me, as a reader, the text..." but that -- two commas -- might be a mistake too.

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#103

Сообщение tourist » 30 авг 2018, 16:52

Роман Молти,
Off: thank god it wasn't undocumented immigrant
MYSGA, indeed )

Hope your post won't discourage alanta from participating in our little correct-my-English game )

Роман Молти
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#104

Сообщение Роман Молти » 30 авг 2018, 18:26

alanta, the following may help.
(https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/educa ... -sentences)
So feel free to start a sentence with an “as” phrase, but just be careful that you put the person that the “as” phrase refers to right after the job name. It would be incorrect to say, “As a home inspector, bats sometimes fly in my face when I’m in the attic.” That’s called a misplaced modifier, because the modifier, the “as” phrase, mistakenly modifies “bats.” This is a very common error that I as a copy editor see.
The problem is that the "as" phrase modifies "the text" in that sentence. Both elements are not logically related. Take a closer look at the main clause
as a reader the text is hard to read
It literally implies that "the text is a reader"
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#105

Сообщение alanta » 30 авг 2018, 18:36

tourist пишет:
30 авг 2018, 16:52
Hope your post won't discourage alanta from participating in our little correct-my-English game )
It won't. But there's another thing that will. As I said before I don't think that it's my place to correct anyone's English. My post is not a correction per se but more like sharing an opinion, or passing an opinion so to speak. Actually I just shared/passed the advice I had recieved from a native speaker some time ago. That's all :)

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#106

Сообщение Mary May » 30 авг 2018, 21:15

tourist, thank you;
your B2-link seems not to work - but it's OK, please don't mind it
if I may say so, more convenieNt,
regrettably, no ))
Oh, now I see; but it took me a while to notice what's wrong. Being somewhat dyslectic, I could have made much more spelling mistakes than I did.
switch between keyboards in order to put '
? - when on phone

alanta, thank you too.
I'm happy you didn't take Roman's comment wrong because he meant well.

You are right: punctuation is a constant pain in my neck. I wish [mention]Belka_Teacher[/mention] were here: she tried to teach me ropes commas a few months ago - but I'm still here, alas!
That's why I can't discuss the subject of wrongs and rights here; what I can do is just try to explain.

Russian punctuation bears little to no influence on the way I punctuate in English; it's the way I talk that matters; actually, all my commas and dashes and... others sit in the places where I - as a speaker - either make a pause or "change pitch" or... do something else that is audible. That's it.
And, btw, just following this string of pauses and trying to hear with your inner ear what it sounds like, helps to "unwind" the structures that otherwise might seem too complicated.
Certainly, that does not make studying punctuation unnecessary. And I'm going to do it. One day ))
You see - I can write shorter sentences too!

That brings us to the next part.
alanta пишет:
30 авг 2018, 18:36
I think if you try to keep it short and simple when it's possible your writing would look better...
...My post is not a correction per se but more like sharing an opinion, or passing an opinion so to speak. Actually I just shared/passed the advice I had recieved from a native speaker some time ago.
Thank you and the unknown native speaker for the advice but I'm not that sure about its applicability in general. In that respect, YOUR opinion is of greater value for me, as no advice regarding things that do not obey strict rules, can be universal.
"Unlike the first four, today's piece is, for a refreshing (hopefully) change, taken from fiction."
You don't like the sentence and find it hard to understand.
Got it. Thank you.
tourist пишет:
30 авг 2018, 16:52
Роман Молти,
Hope your post won't discourage alanta from participating in our little correct-my-English game )
It's a pleasure to have you here making peace. I hope you'll like the role and stick to it )) I mean it.
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#107

Сообщение tourist » 30 авг 2018, 21:21

alanta,
C'mon,your English is good enough,it doesn't have to be perfect to express an opinion.
Even if your suggestion/correction is wrong for some reason, we will correct you as well.
In any case by giving advice you improve your English,I know I do. )
Besides,even though you are not a teacher,you're brave enough to write here in English.
How many teachers on this forum are willing to put their reputation on the line?
A tiny minority,sorry to say.
So,please,if you've got an opinion or suggestion don't hesitate to make your contribution.

Remember the old saying ?
those who can, do; those who can't, teach

It was a joke, before someone gets offended )
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#108

Сообщение well well well » 30 авг 2018, 21:30

tourist пишет:
30 авг 2018, 21:21
by giving an advice
;)

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#109

Сообщение tourist » 30 авг 2018, 21:34

Wow,thanks )
I'll deliberately introduce more mistakes as long as you are here to correct me )
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well well well

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#110

Сообщение Mary May » 30 авг 2018, 21:37

Sorry guys,
let us stop it here please.
My so deeply hidden agenda when writing this post had nth to do with grammar/lexis/etc

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#111

Сообщение alanta » 30 авг 2018, 22:18

Mary May пишет:
30 авг 2018, 21:15
You see - I can write shorter sentences too!
I had no doubt :)
But seriously, no offence meant -- not now, not before. Actually, I myself am not good at writing in short sentences, and when it comes to commas they are all over the place in both languages))). So I was just sharing a tip which I've found useful and usually try to keep it in mind when I'm writing.
tourist пишет:
30 авг 2018, 21:21
Besides,even though you are not a teacher,you're brave enough to write here in English.
How many teachers on this forum are willing to put their reputation on the line?
Unlike them I have nothing to lose ;). So no bravery at all just... uhmm... recklessness? maybe :))
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#112

Сообщение Mary May » 02 сен 2018, 13:51

alanta, it's NOT about long sentences, but still:
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...My brothers read a little bit.
Little words like If and it.
My father can read big words, too.
Like CONSTANTINOPLE and TIMBUKTU!
Dr Seuss


He (Father) is a bit proud of himself, isn't he?
And so am I - in a way.
Sometimes.
Not very often...
...когда вы перечитываете то, что написали, у вас должно быть чувство радостного удовлетворения - вот как отлично написано, просто безупречно! Если чувствуете, что что-то не так, переделывайте, добивайтесь красоты звучания, чтобы вы гордились своей работой.
- Thus Spoke Zarathustra Mike
Not my case yet )) A long way to go.
))

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#113

Сообщение alanta » 02 сен 2018, 19:52

Mary May пишет:
02 сен 2018, 13:51
alanta, it's NOT about long sentences, but still:
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...My brothers read a little bit.
Little words like If and it.
My father can read big words, too.
Like CONSTANTINOPLE and TIMBUKTU!
Dr Seuss


He (Father) is a bit proud of himself, isn't he?
And so am I - in a way.
Sometimes.
Not very often...
...когда вы перечитываете то, что написали, у вас должно быть чувство радостного удовлетворения - вот как отлично написано, просто безупречно! Если чувствуете, что что-то не так, переделывайте, добивайтесь красоты звучания, чтобы вы гордились своей работой.
- Thus Spoke Zarathustra Mike
Not my case yet )) A long way to go.
))
That part in Russian inside the spoiler -- it looks like an impossible goal for me. I quite rarely if ever have that feeling of happy satisfaction (or whatever it's supposed to be called in English) when I read a piece of my writing. Besides, I think that if it's ever possible one has to be a C2++ in the language, or has a native-like command of it.

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#114

Сообщение Mary May » 02 сен 2018, 20:57

alanta,
beyond the horizons, agree;
but what we still can do (should do, I'd say) is praising ourselves for doing better than we used to do a year... a few months... a month ago...
And - work on our mistakes. So, mine (a few detected ) are here:
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your link seems not to work - doesn't seem to work
she tried to teach me ropes commas - to teach me THE ropes
...but I'm still here, - maybe, I'm still there(?)
but I'm still here, alas! - but alas, I'm still...
all my commas and dashes sit in the places where I... make a pause... - How can I rephrase it?
YOUR opinion is of greater value for me - of greater value TO me (to/for my common mistake)
I hope you'll like the role and stick to it - I hope you like the role
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#115

Сообщение tourist » 02 сен 2018, 21:18

Your spoiler spoiled everything... may be because you spoiled him,the spoiled brat he is )
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#116

Сообщение Mary May » 02 сен 2018, 21:25

tourist, I was in the middle of looking for more mistakes, sorry.
You were too fast.


Thanks for the idiom
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define. ... led%20Brat

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#117

Сообщение alanta » 02 сен 2018, 21:48

Mary May пишет:
02 сен 2018, 20:57
(to/for my common mistake)
Well, it's really a tricky one, at least for me. I guess, I misused to/for in the sentence "it looks like an impossible goal for me". It seems the more common phrase is "looks like ... to me" but had I written that with "to" the meaning would've been -- "I think it's impossible" but it's not exactly what I meant. The key words here are "for me".

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#118

Сообщение tourist » 02 сен 2018, 22:22

I'm still here there none the wiser

all my commas and dashes sit in the places where I... make a pause...
better:...commas indicate a pause (in a sentence)

to hear with your inner ear -> rely on my gut feelings

but I'm not that sure about its applicability in general -> I'm not sure it's always a good idea/strategy
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#119

Сообщение Mary May » 02 сен 2018, 22:35

Thank you.
tourist пишет:
02 сен 2018, 22:22
to hear with your inner ear -> rely on my gut feelings
but what if it's literally about hearing? not metaphorically?

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#120

Сообщение tourist » 02 сен 2018, 22:59

inner ear doesn't have a figurative meaning,
but you can say instead:
listen to the sound of it /whether it sounds right/if it's music to your ears or similar
well, the last one is not exactly right, but you got my drift )

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#121

Сообщение Mary May » 10 сен 2018, 12:55

alanta пишет:
10 сен 2018, 12:20
...прихожу к выводу, что найти тютора для того, чтобы он реально мог мне что-то дать полезное, чтобы поднять мой уровень - это практически mission impossible. Увы(.
I see what you mean; still, just have a look at this short book-based course - why not give it a try? S. is a brilliant teacher and a CPE (A) holder. Besides, she is such a nice and caring person. It's just a month-long cousre and it might become a new and exciting experience in your solo journey. Sort of a break, maybe.
Advertising, yes.
And a bit of biased, because I know her well. Still, it's the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. ))
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#122

Сообщение alanta » 10 сен 2018, 16:12

Mary May, the thing is I'm studtying/learning English just for fun. No real goal like a language exam, etc. I like it the way it is. So I was just speaking hypothetically.

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#123

Сообщение Olya » 10 сен 2018, 20:36

For those who don't want to sit at home English is a good opportunity to travel which however doesn't mean spending too much money.)

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#124

Сообщение Mary May » 11 сен 2018, 14:16

well well well,
Hi, were it you with whom we touched upon the topic one day? I mean, finding very short interesting reading texts for our students?

Look what has just come to my mind: why not use synopses of films found in Wikipedia. They can be very catchy and of a variety of genres to meet any requirements and satisfy any taste, and you can cut them at any moment not only to make them shorter, but to create expectation or even suspense and thus encourage students to read more/watch the film...

What might be the hidden downsides of the idea? At the moment, I'm very pleased with myself the idea though I do feel there should be some fatal disadvantages, sort of a trap, or else someone would have already done it. Just because it's such an accessible, free and practically unlimited source that can be appealing even without tasks that graded readers include; but I know of no-one who applies them to their teaching/studies.
[mention]September[/mention] [mention]Yety[/mention] [mention]Xander[/mention] [mention]Mike[/mention] [mention]Juliemiracle[/mention]
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my summoning of spirits;
sort of table-turning ))
What do you think?

For example, these two:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridge_of ... film)#Plot
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_Plot#Plot
Aren't they nice?

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#125

Сообщение Juliemiracle » 11 сен 2018, 17:34

Mary May,
I guess it could be fun. However, make sure it's written in decent English: I read loads of wiki articles about films myself, and some of them are created by enthusiasts whose language isn't what you'd like your students to pick up.
The main reason why I've never tried it in my classes is that the course planning and syllabus are really tight at my uni, so fitting sth additional in becomes quite a challenge. That said, I keep encouraging my students to surround themselves by English (like I do): 95% of googling & wikiing - in English, all device interfaces, online accounts etc - in English, radio, films, books - mostly in English. Some of them follow my lead while others... well, you can lead a horse to water...
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