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Модератор: Delly
- Delly
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Боюсь, что если эти действия не будут пресекаться должным образом, то вторая половина форума разбежится не менее быстро)JamesTheBond пишет: ↑05 мар 2018, 22:36 Если за переход на личности, офф-топики и коверкание слов давать сразу предупреждение (а по правилам получается, что так), не будут ли при следовании этим правилам быстро забанены половина участников форума? :)
А если серьезно, то я за гибкий подход в модерировании. Но без расхлябанности. Считаю вполне допустимым первый раз ограничиться устным замечанием, сделав пометку в профиле пользователя о нарушении правил. Цель модерации в поддержании комфортной для посетителей атмосферы и предоставление возможности узнавать что-то новое в области АЯ. Выполнение писаных правил не самоцель.
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Полностью поддерживаю возражение. Во-первых, бывают ситуации, когда человек потерял пароль и от аккаунта на форума, и от своего адреса электронной почты (поэтому не может его восстановить через почту), во-вторых, возможны ситуации, когда члены одной семьи пишут с одного компьютера (если вы такое по IP-адресу собираетесь определять). Наверное, еще какие-то такие ситуации бывают, но это первое, что приходит в голову.life-long learner пишет: ↑04 мар 2018, 18:15 по правилам:
2.3. Создавать более одной учетной записи.
Наказание: бессрочная блокировка учетной записи.
--считаю излишним, наказание непропорциональным
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- well well well
- JamesTheBond
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Нет, а то, что Вы в начале сказали – тоже совершенно серьезно. Безусловно, при несоблюдении правил именно так и будет.Delly пишет: ↑06 мар 2018, 00:41 Боюсь, что если эти действия не будут пресекаться должным образом, то вторая половина форума разбежится не менее быстро)
А если серьезно, то я за гибкий подход в модерировании. Но без расхлябанности. Считаю вполне допустимым первый раз ограничиться устным замечанием, сделав пометку в профиле пользователя о нарушении правил. Цель модерации в поддержании комфортной для посетителей атмосферы и предоставление возможности узнавать что-то новое в области АЯ. Выполнение писаных правил не самоцель.
Но и совершенно согласен, что тут нужна гибкость и я лично за то, чтобы сначала все-таки были замечания.
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- Delly
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Нет, не попадает и вы это прекрасно знаете. Просто вам хочется думать так, успокоить совесть. Даже иконки 16х16 пиксел защищаются как картины маслом 4х6 метров. Сообщество решило игнорировать собственные правила, вот и все.JamesTheBond пишет: ↑05 мар 2018, 22:36 Аватарки используют на любом форуме мира - это подпадает под понятие "добросовестного использования".
- Xander
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After reading some posts of questionable content which quite likely haven't been edited/deleted yet, I just checked another forum's (The Free Dictionary Forum) rules. No need to reinvent the wheel.
At times it might sound a bit overboard, but some ideas could be useful. I'll put them here just in case.
Quote.
No Offensive Language/Flaming
The use of inappropriate or offensive language is not permitted on our site. Inappropriate or offensive language includes, but is not limited to, any language or content that is vulgar, obscene, abusive, defamatory, harassing, hateful, profane, slanderous, lewd, sexually suggestive, violent, or contains racially, ethnically, or otherwise objectionable content. Do not post any content that violates any International laws or regulations. Posts which _______'s moderators or administrators consider to be inappropriate or offensive will be edited or deleted at the staff’s discretion. Insulting, threatening, and harassing comments will not be tolerated. Anyone who uses inappropriate language, starts a personal attack, or engages in hate speech will be barred from the forums. Users who repeatedly disregard any of these guidelines may be banned from our forums.
Grammar, Spelling, Punctuation
This is an educational forum, thus proper spelling, capitalization, grammar, and punctuation are critical. Except as a topic of discussion, chatspeak (txt) is not acceptable.
No Spam or URL Dropping
Spam, flooding, advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, and solicitations are forbidden on this forum. Do not come here to drop the URL of your website or to promote yourself on our forums. If you wish to share a relevant URL with members of the forum, you may do so by explaining what the site is and why it is relevant to the topic being discussed.
*solicitation - the act of asking someone for money, help, support, or (had no idea about the last point until now)) an opinion
No Proofreading/Homework
These forums do not provide free schoolwork, translations, or revisions of texts. Genuine questions about grammar and translation for educational purposes are allowed, but users who abuse this system will have their posts deleted and may be banned from the forums.
Account Signatures
Each user is allowed up to one (1) line of text up to 120 characters in length in his/her signature. Signatures that are longer will be edited to fit on one line and to meet our character limits. URLs and images are not allowed in user signatures. If a user would like to share his homepage or blog information with other users, s/he may do so using the tools made available in the personal profile section.
Unquote.
And the cherry on top - an idea of my own.
Occassionally it might be quite difficult to make a judgement call about whether the user deserves to be banned or not. Formally, no rule has been broken. But he's a huge pain in the ass, and not just for moderators )). Still have any doubts? - Create a poll, collect instant feedback from other users. Bid farewell to the hapless guy.
Obviously, some borrowed pieces are already implemented here. Beg your pardon for not editing out all of them.
P.S.
Also, I am a bit disappointed that the forum has only one official language - Russian; Russian speakers are the only target audience. But I can live with it. ) And, frankly, I'm not disappointed at all; after all, there are more important things than languages. Just hope that more people - some of them might very well be English natives or any foreigners planning to visit Russia who either are ashamed of their Russian or simply don't understand the language - would start using English for communication more eagerly, not just talk about it.
At times it might sound a bit overboard, but some ideas could be useful. I'll put them here just in case.
Quote.
No Offensive Language/Flaming
The use of inappropriate or offensive language is not permitted on our site. Inappropriate or offensive language includes, but is not limited to, any language or content that is vulgar, obscene, abusive, defamatory, harassing, hateful, profane, slanderous, lewd, sexually suggestive, violent, or contains racially, ethnically, or otherwise objectionable content. Do not post any content that violates any International laws or regulations. Posts which _______'s moderators or administrators consider to be inappropriate or offensive will be edited or deleted at the staff’s discretion. Insulting, threatening, and harassing comments will not be tolerated. Anyone who uses inappropriate language, starts a personal attack, or engages in hate speech will be barred from the forums. Users who repeatedly disregard any of these guidelines may be banned from our forums.
Grammar, Spelling, Punctuation
This is an educational forum, thus proper spelling, capitalization, grammar, and punctuation are critical. Except as a topic of discussion, chatspeak (txt) is not acceptable.
No Spam or URL Dropping
Spam, flooding, advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, and solicitations are forbidden on this forum. Do not come here to drop the URL of your website or to promote yourself on our forums. If you wish to share a relevant URL with members of the forum, you may do so by explaining what the site is and why it is relevant to the topic being discussed.
*solicitation - the act of asking someone for money, help, support, or (had no idea about the last point until now)) an opinion
No Proofreading/Homework
These forums do not provide free schoolwork, translations, or revisions of texts. Genuine questions about grammar and translation for educational purposes are allowed, but users who abuse this system will have their posts deleted and may be banned from the forums.
Account Signatures
Each user is allowed up to one (1) line of text up to 120 characters in length in his/her signature. Signatures that are longer will be edited to fit on one line and to meet our character limits. URLs and images are not allowed in user signatures. If a user would like to share his homepage or blog information with other users, s/he may do so using the tools made available in the personal profile section.
Unquote.
And the cherry on top - an idea of my own.
Occassionally it might be quite difficult to make a judgement call about whether the user deserves to be banned or not. Formally, no rule has been broken. But he's a huge pain in the ass, and not just for moderators )). Still have any doubts? - Create a poll, collect instant feedback from other users. Bid farewell to the hapless guy.
Obviously, some borrowed pieces are already implemented here. Beg your pardon for not editing out all of them.
P.S.
Also, I am a bit disappointed that the forum has only one official language - Russian; Russian speakers are the only target audience. But I can live with it. ) And, frankly, I'm not disappointed at all; after all, there are more important things than languages. Just hope that more people - some of them might very well be English natives or any foreigners planning to visit Russia who either are ashamed of their Russian or simply don't understand the language - would start using English for communication more eagerly, not just talk about it.
- Xander
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Well,
"Сайт ориентирован не только на пользователей из России, но и на жителей СНГ, а так же стран бывшего СССР."
It makes Russian the official language.
At least that's the impression I got. ))) But, as I mentioned before, it's not a big deal, just an observation.
And probably my phrasing in the post above wasn't clear enough.
It's not explicitly stated anywhere that writing in English is very welcome in any thread (taking into account the language level of other participants, of course).
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Но ведь нигде это и не запрещено.
Хотя я помню правило - На каком языке задал вопрос ТС на таком должен быть и ответ.
Я помню на прошлом форуме людей журили, если это правило не соблюдалось. И помню, я сам часто писал не правильно, не на том языке.
Т.е. хочу сказать, что если запрета нет - то пишите хоть на китайском, и уже ваша ответственность будут ли вам отвечать и на каком языке.
Вы считаете, что это нужно расписывать официально?
У меня почему-то выросло такое отношение к правилам, что они должны больше запрещать и ограничивать, а не разрешать какие-то действия. Т.е. если мы напишем "Приветствуется писать в разных ветках на английском" люди могут воспринять это как указание писать по английски. Может это и к лучшему - будет меньше начинающих, которые еще боятся писать по английски :)
- Xander
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To be honest, I have no particular opinion on the matter. No suggestions either; only observations & thoughts. )
Vaguely remember that the old forum's rules contained a piece which went like
"You can write in either language anywhere you like".
To avoid misenterpretation, this very line could easily be edited/paraphrased or replaced by a different one with a similar message."Приветствуется писать в разных ветках на английском" люди могут воспринять это как указание писать по английски.
And it's no surprise at all. Intermediate & advanced are sometimes afraid even more than beginners. )
- acapnotic
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But if I remember correctly, in the old forum people didn't like you writing in English where all the other participants used Russian. They were annoyed and said they came to the forum after a hard working day, or something like that, and didn't feel like struggling with English posts.
- Kind_Punk
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Думаю, лучше все же отвечать на языке вопроса. Человек, допустим, только-только до ПрСм добрался, а ему напишут в ФтПфКнПс ))
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- Xander
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Well, there were natives writing in English in threads with other participants writing in Russian. If I remember correctly, most of the time people didn't mind at all. )) Sometimes these natives were even advised to polish their writing skills. )))
Only after that I joined in.
This very weird prejudice of people you mentioned might be based on the country of origin (pure discrimination), or stem from unreadability of my English (solution: they can just stop reading my posts :), or ask me politely to switch to Russian).
But this flood doesn't have much to do with what I was talking about.
Only after that I joined in.
This very weird prejudice of people you mentioned might be based on the country of origin (pure discrimination), or stem from unreadability of my English (solution: they can just stop reading my posts :), or ask me politely to switch to Russian).
But this flood doesn't have much to do with what I was talking about.
Последний раз редактировалось Xander 15 мар 2018, 17:11, всего редактировалось 1 раз.
- Xander
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You're absolutely right. )
But I've never noticed anything even remotely fitting such a description. Did I really miss something that important? Have any links? ))
Последний раз редактировалось Xander 15 мар 2018, 17:57, всего редактировалось 1 раз.
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Xander, Do you mean that somebody discriminates you not allowing to write in English?
You're welcome to write in English. However, you have to be aware there are people who don't want to bother themselves by reading in English, and if such a person is a topic started, this person can blame you that you discriminate this person.
Or
If you would like to introduce this into the rules, I am not sure if we need to write about what is allowed. Because there could be a lot to list in the rules in that case and the rules could volume up to the Russian constitution in their extend. I am not sure if it is necessary.
You're welcome to write in English. However, you have to be aware there are people who don't want to bother themselves by reading in English, and if such a person is a topic started, this person can blame you that you discriminate this person.
Or
If you would like to introduce this into the rules, I am not sure if we need to write about what is allowed. Because there could be a lot to list in the rules in that case and the rules could volume up to the Russian constitution in their extend. I am not sure if it is necessary.
You mean to the old forum?
- Xander
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Of course, not. )
Only beginners can 'discriminate' against me writing in English, but it never happened before, because in that case I usually switch to Russian.
No. This one.You mean to the old forum?
I know, but thanks anyway! Really don't see what the whole fuss is about.You're welcome to write in English.
No, no, and no. ))If you would like to introduce this into the rules, I am not sure if we need to write about what is allowed. Because there could be a lot to list in the rules in that case and the rules could volume up to the Russian constitution in their extend. I am not sure if it is necessary.
I just quoted (or misquoted) one of the old forum rules, provided some food for thought. No suggestions made. ) My mistake. Just forget about it.
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Why should we forget? Maybe it will be a significant addition to the rules. I don't mind discussing the issue.
I am not so serious about the rules as they can be modifide at any time.
We can add something if the members think it is important. Moreover, I am not a policy maker here. I am just curious whether it is really important or not.
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My only concern with 'everyone writing in English' is a very real threat of acquiring bad language habits. Most of us are not native English speakers after all and our command of English language varies greatly. Those nascent English structures in learner's mind are extremely malleable and could easily be affected by overexposure to broken English writing. So if I write something in bad English to an English L1 person, then I'm pretty sure that that negligible amount of ungrammatical input won't do them any harm. But I wouldn't be so sure about myself and other learners. Even experienced language users like teachers are probably susceptible to some degree of skills deterioration due to the frequent contacts with bad grammar and poor word choices in their student's output. (Which probably also means that they need to study harder than their students just to maintain their current level. ;D)
Disclaimer: I hereby deny all responsibility for any possible brain damage resulting from reading the piece of writing above ;)
BTW: There is also a 'Practice Your English' section, where we can publicly "disgrace ourselves".
Disclaimer: I hereby deny all responsibility for any possible brain damage resulting from reading the piece of writing above ;)
BTW: There is also a 'Practice Your English' section, where we can publicly "disgrace ourselves".
СпойлерПоказать
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- Xander
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Бубль Гум,
thanks for the opinion.
And now I'm wondering about the users who have poor Russian writing skills. They might as well stop writing in Russian and go back to school. I am one of such people. ))
Frankly speaking, I don't really care which language people write in here. I've never mentioned otherwise. Since I'm the one writing, I should be concerned about their reading skills. And my understanding is that nobody has a problem with that, do they?
Not probably. Definitely. This even might be the case with L1; but linguists call these poor syntactic and lexical choices slang, jagron, lingo, etc. We are all humans; mistakes (?) are inseparable from development. Now I'm being captain obvious.
thanks for the opinion.
Everyone??? That's not gonna happen. )) Like, ever. )My only concern with 'everyone writing in English' is a very real threat of acquiring bad language habits.
But most of us can still speak Russian. Moreover, the whole internet speaks Frenglish, Runglish, Chinglish, Spanglish, you name it. Because they do that mostly to communicate & have fun, not striving for absolute syntactical and stylistic perfection, gives them a strong chance to start speaking very real English one day.Most of us are not native English speakers after all and our command of English language varies greatly.
Just as well this may be a sure way toThere is also a 'Practice Your English' section, where we can publicly "disgrace ourselves".
(a bit rephrased).acquire bad language habits
And now I'm wondering about the users who have poor Russian writing skills. They might as well stop writing in Russian and go back to school. I am one of such people. ))
Frankly speaking, I don't really care which language people write in here. I've never mentioned otherwise. Since I'm the one writing, I should be concerned about their reading skills. And my understanding is that nobody has a problem with that, do they?
Thank you, captain obvious.Even experienced language users like teachers are probably susceptible to some degree of skills deterioration due to the frequent contacts with bad grammar and poor word choices in their student's output.
Not probably. Definitely. This even might be the case with L1; but linguists call these poor syntactic and lexical choices slang, jagron, lingo, etc. We are all humans; mistakes (?) are inseparable from development. Now I'm being captain obvious.
- Princess Leopoldina
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[mention]Delly[/mention] и [mention]Aksamitka[/mention] , на предыдущем форуме в правилах был пункт не придираться к опечаткам и т.д. Может, внедрить что-то подобное здесь?
Корректное и уважительное, возможно, анонимное указание на misprints и т.д. Особенно актуально, когда пишут со смартфона.
Ну, и вообще исправлять в действительно важных/необходимых случаях, при грубых нарушениях и проч.
Иначе получается какая-то прилюдная адресная хула участника, к которой примыкают остальные (и тоже сложно оценить объективность).
Предложение для более спокойного, доброжелательного общения.
Корректное и уважительное, возможно, анонимное указание на misprints и т.д. Особенно актуально, когда пишут со смартфона.
Ну, и вообще исправлять в действительно важных/необходимых случаях, при грубых нарушениях и проч.
Иначе получается какая-то прилюдная адресная хула участника, к которой примыкают остальные (и тоже сложно оценить объективность).
Предложение для более спокойного, доброжелательного общения.
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- JamesTheBond
- JamesTheBond
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Я предложение поддерживаю. Тем более, что любят придираться к другим, как правило, люди, которые на русском-то делают ошибку за ошибкой. Примеров даже приводить не буду....
- Delly
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Princess Leopoldina, есть прецедент? Опишите подробнее, дайте ссылку, пожалуйста.
Думаю, п.п. 2.6 (переход на личности, третирование, насмешки, троллинг и травля) перекрывает данную проблему.
Думаю, п.п. 2.6 (переход на личности, третирование, насмешки, троллинг и травля) перекрывает данную проблему.
- Princess Leopoldina
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Delly,
Прецедент был, и не единожды. Последний в данном комментарии:
Mike (Голосование по предложениям по реформе преподавания английского в школе)
Прецедент был, и не единожды. Последний в данном комментарии:
Mike (Голосование по предложениям по реформе преподавания английского в школе)
Последний раз редактировалось Delly 12 июн 2018, 16:38, всего редактировалось 1 раз.
Причина: п. п. 2.11
Причина: п. п. 2.11