Spoken Grammar

Обсуждение вопросов, нюансов и тонкостей грамматики английского языка любого уровня.

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Chinara
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#1

Сообщение Chinara »

Предлагаю здесь порассуждать о Spoken Grammar. Я знаю, что есть специальная книжка от Delta Publishing на эту тему. Но у меня ее пока нет и покупать не планирую, потому что для меня она с доставкой выходит очень дорогой.

Пыталась выловить эти моменты в грамматике в других доступных источниках. Пока не очень успешно.

Хорошо поняла про употребление like в Reported speech.

Какие особенности разговорной грамматики знаете вы?
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Avaddon
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#2

Сообщение Avaddon »

would of
Because of careless or hurried pronunciation, would have often sounds like would of or would've. A verb (have) is needed with would, not a preposition (of): "Yes, I would have (would've) noticed that."
...
Common Errors in English Usage (En-En)
would of

could of / should of / would of
This is one of those errors typically made by a person more familiar with the spoken than the written form of English. A sentence like "I would have gone if anyone had given me free tickets" is normally spoken in a slurred way so that the two words "would have" are not distinctly separated, but blended together into what is properly rendered "would've". Seeing that "V" tips you off right away that "would've" is a contraction of "would have". But many people hear "would of" and that's how they write it. Wrong.
Note that "must of" is similarly an error for "must have".
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Belka_Teacher
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#3

Сообщение Belka_Teacher »

Avaddon пишет: 09 мар 2018, 15:09 would of
Because of careless or hurried pronunciation, would have often sounds like would of or would've. A verb (have) is needed with would, not a preposition (of): "Yes, I would have (would've) noticed that."
У меня как раз сложилось впечатление, что это стандартный способ произношения auxiliary verb "have" в connected speech, он дается в современных УМК для отработки (например, Speakout) и в учебниках по грамматие, где уделяется внимание фонетике (MyGrammarLab).

Вот ссылка на oxford dictionary

https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries. ... e_1?q=have

Have вполне может (а в данных случаях в разговорной речи должен) произноситься как /əv/.

Для меня Spoken grammar - это скорее использование Past Simple в 3 Conditional вместо Past Perfect, чем грешат многие американцы.
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Chinara
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#4

Сообщение Chinara »

Вот ссылка на вышеупомянутою мной книгу от Delta Publishing “A Handbook of Spoken Grammar” http://www.deltapublishing.co.uk/titles ... en-grammar

Вот само содержание в виде pdf http://www.deltapublishing.co.uk/resources/BookMap.pdf
Можно взять за ориентир для обсуждения.
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Thesaurus tpz
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#5

Сообщение Thesaurus tpz »

Вот, напр., список некоторых основных явлений разговорной речи:
Ellipsis
Omission of one or more words in clause.
Any luck? Instead of “Did you have any luck?”

Repetition
Spoken language is produced spontaneously, in real time, and we do not have time to plan what we are going to say. This often results in repetition and additions. For example, a quantifier is often placed after its noun or pronoun:
Parisians, most of them speak some English.
Or we often add a "tail” at the end:
It’s a funny place, this town.

Vagueness
"Vague language is more likely to be the sign of a skilled and sensitive speaker than a lazy one" claim Carter & McCarthy (2006, p. 202)1. Some examples of vagueness in spoken English include:
-ish, kind of / kinda, .., or something, … and things like that

Historical present
The use of present tenses to narrate past events in order to achieve a more dramatic and vivid effect.
I get to my car and then I realise that I’ve left my car keys at home so I go back home and guess what?…

Discourse markers
Discourse markers used in Spoken English are quite different than those in written English
Well…, anyway…I mean… You know
NB. "You know" is the most frequent word combination in English

Formulaic language
Exchanges in a conversation often consist of formulaic expressions rather than full sentences.
That’s fine. What time? What about…?
http://leoxicon.blogspot.ru/2011/11/spoken-grammar.html
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ivorfuzzle
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#6

Сообщение ivorfuzzle »

Avaddon пишет: 09 мар 2018, 15:09 would of
Because of careless or hurried pronunciation, would have often sounds like would of or would've. A verb (have) is needed with would, not a preposition (of): "Yes, I would have (would've) noticed that."
...
Common Errors in English Usage (En-En)
would of

could of / should of / would of
This is one of those errors typically made by a person more familiar with the spoken than the written form of English. A sentence like "I would have gone if anyone had given me free tickets" is normally spoken in a slurred way so that the two words "would have" are not distinctly separated, but blended together into what is properly rendered "would've". Seeing that "V" tips you off right away that "would've" is a contraction of "would have". But many people hear "would of" and that's how they write it. Wrong.
Note that "must of" is similarly an error for "must have".
should of would of are actually a feature of non-standard written grammar, it's just how people hear/say those auxiliary verb 'clusters'
What happens in spoken grammar is that in the so called 'third conditionals' people tend to use 'would have' both in the if clause and in the main clause
so in spoken English (in North America at least) instead of saying, I would have gone if someone had given me free tickets, people will normally say, "I would have gone if someone would have given me free tickets", It is really is a thing now
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Yety
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#7

Сообщение Yety »

Avaddon пишет: 09 мар 2018, 15:09 But many people hear "would of" and that's how they write it. Wrong.
ivorfuzzle пишет: 21 мар 2018, 12:38 should of would of are actually a feature of non-standard written grammar, it's just how people hear/say those auxiliary verb 'clusters'
Yep. It's one way or the other.))
ivorfuzzle пишет: 21 мар 2018, 12:38 people tend to use 'would have' both in the 'if' clause and in the main clause so in spoken English (in North America at least) instead of saying, I would have gone if someone had given me free tickets, people will normally say, "I would have gone if someone would have given me free tickets". It is really is a thing now
Just for reference,
Advanced Language Practice by Michael Vince, P. 42:
(10) Colloquial past situations
This is technically 'incorrect' but many native speakers say this, perhaps to balance the 'have' in each part of the sentence.
If I'd have been there, I would have seen her.
- возможно, для "симметрии", "созвучия" перфектных инфинитивов.
This should be avoided in tests, though.
Besides, the growing tendency to use would have done in 'if' clauses is believed to be a matter of inter-language interference, particularly among Spanglish speakers.

Now editors won't even bother to correct the doubled would have done in Cond III:
СпойлерПоказать

Caution: The Russian subs leave much to be desired.
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Yety
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#8

Сообщение Yety »

Belka_Teacher пишет: 09 мар 2018, 15:16 Past Simple в 3 Conditional вместо Past Perfect, чем грешат многие американцы.
ivorfuzzle пишет: 21 мар 2018, 12:38 in the so called 'third conditionals' people tend to use 'would have' both in the if clause
Now both of the above mentioned in one song.)) In the official lyrics, at least.
(It seems impossible to find a version of the video with these exact lyrics on the screen, but something like if he'd've told me can definitely be heard the first time he sings it. It's not so complicated the second time, though.)

My Father's Son
Joe Cocker

СпойлерПоказать
Heart over mind, yes I'm
My father's son
I live my life, just like
My father's done

If he'd've told me, one day
That somebody'd have my heart in chains
Would I believe it? No way
СпойлерПоказать
Made up my mind I'd never fall that way

But tell me why
Every time I try to tell you it's goodbye
I can't seem to let go
In my heart I know I want to stay
What I'm trying to say

Heart over mind
Yes I'm my father's son
And I'm inclined to do
As my father's done

Here I am with you
And I know that it's true
Despite all the feelings
You're putting me through
I try to walk away, something makes me stay

Heart over mind, yes I'm
My father's son
I live my life, just like
My father's done
But tell me why
Every time I try to tell you it's goodbye
I can't seem to let go
In my heart, I know I want to stay, what I'm trying to say

Heart over mind
Yes I'm my father's son
And I live my life just like
My father's done

If he had told me, one day
That somebody'd have my heart in chains
Would I believe it? No way
СпойлерПоказать
Made up my mind, I'd never fall that way
Heart over mind, yes I'm
My father's son
And I'm inclined to do
As my father's done
Heart over mind, yes I'm
My father's son
Songwriters: Connor Reeves / Graham Lyle
The persnickYety version:
I he had told me, one day, ... would I've believed him? No way.
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Belka_Teacher
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