Can everyone reach B2 in English?

Discuss any questions in English. Practise your writing skills.

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#1

Сообщение well well well »

In the description of the CEFR levels we read that a learner who reached B1 "can describe experiences and events, dreams, hopes & ambitions and briefly give reasons and explanations for opinions and plans." Consequently, at B2 our learner can do all of that even better.

Nevertheless, we sometimes come across learners who wish, and declare their intention, to reach B2, at the same time not actually having any dreams or hopes, much less ambitions for anything (aside from the aforementioned level of English). These learners claim not to have experienced most part of what is offered for discussion in almost every English course.

At this point I would like to ward off any potential objections to the fact that every single person has their own experiences that can be discussed, you just need to find out what they are. It is more often than not that these students' main concern is that their lessons don't cost them an arm and a leg. So for a teacher it doesn't often seem feasible to create a long enough individual course where only the student's experiences are discussed. More so, in some instances students claim not to have experienced enough or not having an opinion on enough topics to supply the material for such course if the teacher ever decides to go for it.

So we have a student without much experience and very few opinions on customary topics. What are other ways of creating opportunities for such students to speak, aside from drills, transformations, and excruciating digging for any relevant subjects for discussion? Also, role plays may not work for everyone -- students might feel awkward, the situations are often, again, not relatable enough which combined might cause the students to quit the role plays altogether.

Games didn't show much promise either -- the student thought it was senseless to just say sentences or ask questions completely out of context. I had high hopes for debates -- all options are already expressed, the student only needed to retell them. Yet again, we weren't able to find a suitable topic that would spark interest. Also, I forgot to mention that my student isn't very industrious, meaning that memorizing examples of language didn't turn out to be an option.

Any ideas?
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Irregardless
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#2

Сообщение Irregardless »

Procrastination is one of the most common and deadliest of diseases and its toll on success and happiness is heavy. (c)
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#3

Сообщение well well well »

Thank you for your valuable feedback!
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#4

Сообщение Irregardless »

well well well, if you are interested in Speaking for your students, try TDI Speaking (TEFL). They suggest various types of activities.
Besides, there are Pearson Action Cards and Cards in Action levels for A2-B1. Works like a charm.
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#5

Сообщение well well well »

Irregardless, where can I see examples of those cards? I tried googling but what I found are pictures to describe. Also, it's not hard to get students speaking, it's just one particular student that I've described who is a bit of a challenge at the moment.

He wants our discussions to be meaningful, not interested in saying things just for the sake of saying them. I get around this by telling him he must practice his grammar and vocabulary but I wish I had more resources for us to have conversations that make actual sense.
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#6

Сообщение Irregardless »

well well well, I will upload them on yandex disc. Just a mo.
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#7

Сообщение Irregardless »

Pearson's materials (I managed to grab them before they have closed LMS because of a technical issue)
https://yadi.sk/i/hx-9y_vy3ZYTrf
https://yadi.sk/i/EzClgRws3ZYTs5
https://yadi.sk/i/hEZRij6X3ZYTrx
https://yadi.sk/i/Qg7I1EKn3ZYTrz
https://yadi.sk/i/M1We9iuz3ZYTry
https://yadi.sk/i/tS7L02WO3ZYTs4

For A2 level I am uploading now (over here is such a shitty speed of the net).
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#8

Сообщение Irregardless »

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#9

Сообщение well well well »

Irregardless, yeah these are the ones I saw when I googled your suggestion. I appreciate your going to the trouble uploading them.

Aha missed the B1-2 ones! "Use the words in a story" is sure a cool activity!
Последний раз редактировалось well well well 25 июл 2018, 10:04, всего редактировалось 1 раз.
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#10

Сообщение well well well »

I'll definitely try the activity offered, thanks!
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#11

Сообщение Mary May »

well well well пишет: 25 июл 2018, 01:21 ...in some instances students claim not to have experienced enough or not having an opinion...
- that's exactly what I don't like about the communicative approach.

However, "too personal" questions (like, "Have you ever done this or that/What is your favourite/scariest/worst whatever...) can be quite easily modified to make them sound more neutral, like "Have you heard of/ever met a person who..."

Or - another option - the questions could be put like "What would your friend/partner/mother-in-law/the man in the street etc say/think about...", which -- 2-in-1 -- would remind us of empathy, a helpful reminder it may be, as putting ourselves in somebody's shoes might be the kind of skill many of us seem to lack.
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#12

Сообщение Mary May »

What is more, you can have a list of statements (or rather a pack of cards with them) and "appoint" your student to agree or disagree with the opinion.
The process might be somewhat "gamified" by tossing a coin to choose the option (whether to be in favour of or against it), with you starting with a few sentences to set a model; then your student follows agreeing with you and challenging the opinion, or supporting the opinion and disagreeing with you
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- это уж как карты (в данном случае, coin/dice) лягут (хотелось бы знать, как сказать что-то подобное по-английски - кажется, д.б. какая-то идиома
Последний раз редактировалось Mary May 25 июл 2018, 12:01, всего редактировалось 1 раз.
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#13

Сообщение well well well »

Mary May, regarding the expression, I found this https://www.thehindu.com/children/it-al ... 871335.ece (although the site seems to belong to a different culture and language, the author of the article has an English-sounding name) and also the phrase "it all depends on the variables of a situation" popped up in my Google autofill.

I'll write about the tactics you suggested later. Happy to have you in the thread!
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#14

Сообщение tourist »

Mary May,
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I can't think of an idiom reflecting the exact meaning of как карты лягут
but a couple of related phrases:

You start with a few sentences to set a model(pattern),then your student follows ... then

1.we will see the way the cookie crumbles
2. Que sera, sera )
3.(depending) how the bones fall
4 (according to) how the dice rolls
5.let the chips/cards fall where they may
FWIW
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#15

Сообщение Ленья »

At first glance, your student seems to be narrow-minded. He has nothing to say regarding traditional topics which are offered in popular english courses. It's difficult to find a suitable topic that he is interested in. Nonetheless he told you that he wanted to improve his English and achive B2-level.
The situation seems controversial to me. I don't believe him. I guess you are not acquainted well enough. He is still rather awkward. Probably he pretends to have nothing to say because of his current level in English. He just avoids speaking.) However the reason could be different. I know a person who may answer: "It's too boring. I don't want to carry on". She isn't stupid, she is just withdrawn.
You may offer a task to find out his personality type. Suggest it as an ordinary exercise. But you will find the result helpful to get to know him better and choose your best approach in teaching of him.
At instance, https://www.16personalities.com/free-personality-test
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#16

Сообщение Xander »

Ленья пишет: 25 июл 2018, 16:53 At first glance, your student seems to be narrow-minded.
Whereas at my first glance, this fellow sounds almost like me a long time ago. Meaningful discussions was the only way to go for me. And for my students now.
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#17

Сообщение well well well »

Xander, care to share a few tricks? You can write me personally in case you don't want to reveal your techniques but are still willing to help a fellow tutor)
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#18

Сообщение Mountbatten »

Ленья пишет: 25 июл 2018, 16:53 He is still rather awkward. Probably he pretends to have nothing to say because of his current level in English. He just avoids speaking.) However the reason could be different. I know a person who may answer: "It's too boring. I don't want to carry on". She isn't stupid, she is just withdrawn.
Thats the point I can agree. well well well, It might be advisable to give students some source for making their observation rather than elicit a free discussion from them in case they struggle with it. Retelling can help with further speculating on a given topic. The latter is a challenging but effective way to develop speaking, to my experience.
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#19

Сообщение alanta »

Xander пишет: 25 июл 2018, 17:05 Whereas at my first glance, this fellow sounds almost like me a long time ago.
This fellow sounds almost like me right now and ever)). I wouldn't be too trilled to discuss the usual textbook topics either, or share my opinion about certain things with an unfriendly stranger. One of the reasons why I prefer to study on my own).

By the way, the title of the thread is rather misleading, IMO.
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#20

Сообщение Xander »

Xander, care to share a few tricks?
Well, well well well

First off, without
excruciating digging for any relevant subjects for discussion
whatever you or your student might have in mind will quite probably be doomed to remain a distant dream

As all of us here know, whatever one wants to get at any given time can only be any two out of the following three:
qualitative
quick
cheap


I for one went for quality and cost-effectiveness, having spent (and still am) donkey's ears on (I hope) high quality personally-tailored material development.

Your student likes New English File? You're all set then, just jump on it.
He likes TED talks? Ditto.
Keen on psychology? Great. CLIL it's called, isn't it?

Sometimes it's pretty clear from the get-go, occasionally it might take 2-3+ lessons to figure what might most likely work with a particular student ...
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#21

Сообщение well well well »

Mary May пишет: 25 июл 2018, 11:19 you can have a list of statements (or rather a pack of cards with them) and "appoint" your student to agree or disagree with the opinion.
Yep, done it. Sorry, I forgot to mention although I meant to)) I've tried using this website https://www.procon.org/debate-topics.php. All my student had to do is read both sides' arguments and then try to use the language expressing any opinion he saw fit. The feedback I got was that he didn't care enough (again)) about any of the topics so it was completely irrelevant for him what we would discuss. Therefore he wasn't motivated enough to learn or try to memorize anything and we fell back into our routine of me squeezing every sentence in his text book for any possible context and drilling until nosebleeds.

Like, he says he's willing to adopt opinions or talk about other people's experiences. However, one cannot escape the harsh reality of it being necessary to actually relate to the subject of discussion. We all know how words just stumble upon each other, crowding the doors of our lips, hurring to escape our mouth once we are given a chance to speak up on something that strikes a chord with us. If not, even if we have every cliché possible saved in a dusty closet of our studious brain, only the wittiest of us are able to rant about something that is insignificant to us.

Mary May, do you have the cards you mentioned on hand, or know where I can procure some? Perhaps I can try with something less extensive than a full-blown debate))
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#22

Сообщение Mary May »

Many writing assignments (for exam essays) sound exactly like that: Some people claim ... bla bla bla... while others...
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#23

Сообщение well well well »

Xander пишет: 25 июл 2018, 18:50 Your student likes New English File?
Not really. Doesn't like any complete course since his receptive skills are more advanced than the productive ones. We have completed American English File 2 before coming up with our current procedures. I'm going to offer the next level once we are done with the ongoing course.
Xander пишет: 25 июл 2018, 18:50He likes TED
Nah. The range of interests is quite limited. Perhaps something technical might work but then I would suffer from boredom haha. Should I go for it? Is it worth it? Are there easier ways? I'll keep digging. You know what they say about lazy people, we do our job quick so that we can take a nap sooner, and we do it well so that we don't have to do it again))
Xander пишет: 25 июл 2018, 18:50 Keen on psychology?
No. Handy work is more up his alley, my opinion about it is stated above))

Thanks for the round up, Xander! Always a pleasure talking with you!
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#24

Сообщение well well well »

alanta пишет: 25 июл 2018, 18:34 I prefer to study on my own).
More power to you, alanta!
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#25

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Mary May пишет: 25 июл 2018, 18:56 Many writing assignments (for exam essays) sound exactly like that: Some people claim ... bla bla bla... while others...
I must keep that in mind. He needs to work on his writing anyway, perhaps it could be our chance to kill two birds with one stone.
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